Why not a caucasian club?

[Super Duty]

Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003

OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move toward
diversity, not bigotry.

She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.

McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic, Dutch,
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.


McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.


One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice president
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[Super Duty]

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

----------------------------------------------------------
Should a California high school student be allowed to start a Caucasian
Club?

Out of 70,870 people responding to a non-scientific poll here are the
results so far:

Yes, if there are other clubs like the Black Student Union and Asian Club
she should be allowed to. 60791 86%

No. There should be no clubs targeting any ethnic group. 8608 12%

No. Only minorities should be able to have clubs targeting an ethnic group.
1471 2%

[torresD]

Why not? I agree.

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003
OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move toward
diversity, not bigotry.
She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.
McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic, Dutch,
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.
McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.
One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice president
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[Super Duty]

Post by torresD
Why not? I agree.

Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.

[torresD]

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.

If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

[unknown]

Post by torresD

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.

If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

[torresD]

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?
David Duke already beat you for that name.

There is extremism and racist on both sides.


List of Black Associations
http://www.citycom.com/links/NBO1.html

There is no reason why there should not be
White Clubs, Associations, Groups,
as there are plenty of Black CLubs.

At Baruch college in NYC, there is a bullentin board
containing announcements for events that will take
place at the different clubs.

There is the Black Student Club,
The Russian Student Club,
The Pakistani Student Club,
The Korean Student Club,
The Chinese Student Club,
The Asian Student Club,
The Trinidad Student Club,
The Haitian Student Club,
The Jamaican Student Club,
The Central American Student Club,
The Latino Student Club,
The Puerto Rican Student Club,
The Dominican Student Club, etc.

This is at a City College.

Pace Univerisity is the same way.
I went to Columbia University for an event
and found the same thing.

So why can't there be a White Club.

Not to allow a White Club is racist.

[wgodfrey]

Post by torresD

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?
David Duke already beat you for that name.

There is extremism and racist on both sides.

Yes, Doris and now you can tell us why Castro doesn't allow the same freedom
of association and expression in Cuba. No need to cross-post your reply to
the non-Latino groups (not that I expect one really).

Post by torresD
List of Black Associations
http://www.citycom.com/links/NBO1.html
There is no reason why there should not be
White Clubs, Associations, Groups,
as there are plenty of Black CLubs.
At Baruch college in NYC, there is a bullentin board
containing announcements for events that will take
place at the different clubs.
There is the Black Student Club,
The Russian Student Club,
The Pakistani Student Club,
The Korean Student Club,
The Chinese Student Club,
The Asian Student Club,
The Trinidad Student Club,
The Haitian Student Club,
The Jamaican Student Club,
The Central American Student Club,
The Latino Student Club,
The Puerto Rican Student Club,
The Dominican Student Club, etc.
This is at a City College.
Pace Univerisity is the same way.
I went to Columbia University for an event
and found the same thing.
So why can't there be a White Club.
Not to allow a White Club is racist.

[Barry Schier]

Post by torresD

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?
David Duke already beat you for that name.

There is extremism and racist on both sides.

Any attempt to place an equal sign between organizations and
efforts of the relatively privileged to deny access to others to equal
education, jobs, economic resources, etc. and organizations and
efforts of those denied to access to others to equal education, jobs,
economic resources, etc. to counteract and/or protest those conditions
is an attempt to place an equal sign between the "victimizer" and the
victim, and as such an APOLOGY for privilege and racism under the
guise of "equally" opposing "both" sides. It is rather ironic that
TorresD, who seems to understand well that flag-waving of the Puerto
Rican flag and other expressions of Puerto Rican pride (i.e., the
nationalism of the oppressed, which deserves the full support of
working people and their allies) are the political opposites to U.S.
flag-waving (i.e., expressions of the national chauvinism of the
oppressor and colonial power), cannot apply the same principle to
understand that organizations, etc. of Blacks, Latinos, etc. are the
political opposite of "white clubs."
The "Black equivalents of David Duke" cannot exist, for however
much they may actually seem to have common in outlook by considering
their racial "opposites" as devils, one has the economic and political
means and power to do significant harm and damage through hatred and
discriminatory practices, while the other has little or no economic
and political means nor power.
There is the old proverb that a bucket of water cannot change
the tides; this adage should be kept in mind when considering the
comparative weight of power and income of the "races," although, as a
result of the gains of civil rights movement, this disparity is
nowhere as great as it once was. Despite all ballyhooing of "Black
capitalism" as a road to "success," the wealth, the power, etc. of
this country remain overwhelmingly in the hands of whites. The largest
Black-owned corporations produce consumer goods which solely effect
the leisure of mostly Black consumers, NOT the machines, manufactured
items, etc. that make an economy run. Johnson Publications' (which
publishes Ebony, Jet, etc.) products have weight on the coffee table,
not in world trade. The list of this country's richest Black
individuals is almost entirely composed of entertainers and athletes,
i.e., those who effect the policies and outcome of their television
programs and sports, not power to directly make (or change) the
policies of the country. (While Bill Cosby, among the richest Blacks
in America, is almost universally recognized as an actor / comedian,
few people even know that he has a Doctorate in education, let alone
what his strong views about that subject are.) The payroll of just
the Top 5 corporations exceeds the TOTAL number of people employed by
ALL Black-owned corporations. (Wal-Mart, with a million-plus
employees, has been frequently named as defendant for discriminatory
practices.) The very largest Black-owned steel maker has only a few
dozen employees; similar statistics apply to companies involved in
energy and all those other arenas that are the backbone of an economic
infrastructure.
The meteoric rise of a Black "separatist" group (with about
750,000 sympathizers at its apex), Elijah Muhammed's Nation of Islam
more than a generation ago was because there were large numbers of
Blacks whose sole observation of whites' behavior was observation of
covert or overt racist behavior. This, and NOT the "mirror side" of
racial hatred was behind the receptivity of many Blacks of the message
that white people were "devils." As the civil rights movement and the
struggle against colonialism became massive movements, with large
layers of whites visibly backing those Black-led movements, the
objective basis for so many believing in "whites as devils" philosophy
disappeared. The evolution of Malcolm X -- from advocate (and
principal spokesperson) of the Nation of Islam and its perspective to
a great revolutionary leader who gained the understanding that the
oppressed must lead their own struggles, but must be willing to
collaborate with any sharing their perspective and program – reflected
this. (The negative attitude of the leadership of the "Black Muslims"
towards political action, women's rights, etc. were also key factors
in Malcolm's departure from that group; but that's another matter that
I won't cover in this already-too-long message.)
The Nation of Islam split (almost disintegrating) with most
following the wing which dropped the previous whites-as-devils
ideology. There now seems to be more newspaper (and Internet)
column-inches devoted to adherents of the "old" philosophy than there
are members of the group that stayed adhering with the old ways and
views. However, the contributions of Malcolm X continue to gain more
and more of the recognition that they should have received during his
lifetime.
And there's one key contribution of Malcolm X that should be
repeated for the benefit of those who say that "There are extremist[s]
on both sides -- black and white" and "There is extremism and racis[m]
on both sides" -- to equate the oppressor with the oppressed is to
equate the attacker with the would-be assailant because "both" have
put up their fists for fighting.

Post by torresD
List of Black Associations
http://www.citycom.com/links/NBO1.html
There is no reason why there should not be
White Clubs, Associations, Groups,
as there are plenty of Black CLubs.
At Baruch college in NYC, there is a bullentin board
containing announcements for events that will take
place at the different clubs.
There is the Black Student Club,
The Russian Student Club,
The Pakistani Student Club,
The Korean Student Club,
The Chinese Student Club,
The Asian Student Club,
The Trinidad Student Club,
The Haitian Student Club,
The Jamaican Student Club,
The Central American Student Club,
The Latino Student Club,
The Puerto Rican Student Club,
The Dominican Student Club, etc.
This is at a City College.
Pace Univerisity is the same way.
I went to Columbia University for an event
and found the same thing.
So why can't there be a White Club.
Not to allow a White Club is racist.

[torresD]

You seem to think that because blacks have been the target
of discrimination, they are incapable of inflicting pain on others,
because they don't like that person's particular color, ethnic background.
You're wrong.

Blacks in positions of power can and do discriminate
against those of a different background.

Black people are human beings after all not saints.

And to say that because whites are the majority,
and are representated in the institutions of power
they should not be able to form a club of their own
and exclude non-whites, the same way that Asians,
Blacks, Caribbean Blacks, Africans, Latinos form
their own clubs and exclude is others is ridiculous.

And it won't stand.

Post by Barry Schier

Post by torresD

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?
David Duke already beat you for that name.

There is extremism and racist on both sides.

Any attempt to place an equal sign between organizations and
efforts of the relatively privileged to deny access to others to equal
education, jobs, economic resources, etc. and organizations and
efforts of those denied to access to others to equal education, jobs,
economic resources, etc. to counteract and/or protest those conditions
is an attempt to place an equal sign between the "victimizer" and the
victim, and as such an APOLOGY for privilege and racism under the
guise of "equally" opposing "both" sides. It is rather ironic that
TorresD, who seems to understand well that flag-waving of the Puerto
Rican flag and other expressions of Puerto Rican pride (i.e., the
nationalism of the oppressed, which deserves the full support of
working people and their allies) are the political opposites to U.S.
flag-waving (i.e., expressions of the national chauvinism of the
oppressor and colonial power), cannot apply the same principle to
understand that organizations, etc. of Blacks, Latinos, etc. are the
political opposite of "white clubs."
The "Black equivalents of David Duke" cannot exist, for however
much they may actually seem to have common in outlook by considering
their racial "opposites" as devils, one has the economic and political
means and power to do significant harm and damage through hatred and
discriminatory practices, while the other has little or no economic
and political means nor power.
There is the old proverb that a bucket of water cannot change
the tides; this adage should be kept in mind when considering the
comparative weight of power and income of the "races," although, as a
result of the gains of civil rights movement, this disparity is
nowhere as great as it once was. Despite all ballyhooing of "Black
capitalism" as a road to "success," the wealth, the power, etc. of
this country remain overwhelmingly in the hands of whites. The largest
Black-owned corporations produce consumer goods which solely effect
the leisure of mostly Black consumers, NOT the machines, manufactured
items, etc. that make an economy run. Johnson Publications' (which
publishes Ebony, Jet, etc.) products have weight on the coffee table,
not in world trade. The list of this country's richest Black
individuals is almost entirely composed of entertainers and athletes,
i.e., those who effect the policies and outcome of their television
programs and sports, not power to directly make (or change) the
policies of the country. (While Bill Cosby, among the richest Blacks
in America, is almost universally recognized as an actor / comedian,
few people even know that he has a Doctorate in education, let alone
what his strong views about that subject are.) The payroll of just
the Top 5 corporations exceeds the TOTAL number of people employed by
ALL Black-owned corporations. (Wal-Mart, with a million-plus
employees, has been frequently named as defendant for discriminatory
practices.) The very largest Black-owned steel maker has only a few
dozen employees; similar statistics apply to companies involved in
energy and all those other arenas that are the backbone of an economic
infrastructure.
The meteoric rise of a Black "separatist" group (with about
750,000 sympathizers at its apex), Elijah Muhammed's Nation of Islam
more than a generation ago was because there were large numbers of
Blacks whose sole observation of whites' behavior was observation of
covert or overt racist behavior. This, and NOT the "mirror side" of
racial hatred was behind the receptivity of many Blacks of the message
that white people were "devils." As the civil rights movement and the
struggle against colonialism became massive movements, with large
layers of whites visibly backing those Black-led movements, the
objective basis for so many believing in "whites as devils" philosophy
disappeared. The evolution of Malcolm X -- from advocate (and
principal spokesperson) of the Nation of Islam and its perspective to
a great revolutionary leader who gained the understanding that the
oppressed must lead their own struggles, but must be willing to
collaborate with any sharing their perspective and program - reflected
this. (The negative attitude of the leadership of the "Black Muslims"
towards political action, women's rights, etc. were also key factors
in Malcolm's departure from that group; but that's another matter that
I won't cover in this already-too-long message.)
The Nation of Islam split (almost disintegrating) with most
following the wing which dropped the previous whites-as-devils
ideology. There now seems to be more newspaper (and Internet)
column-inches devoted to adherents of the "old" philosophy than there
are members of the group that stayed adhering with the old ways and
views. However, the contributions of Malcolm X continue to gain more
and more of the recognition that they should have received during his
lifetime.
And there's one key contribution of Malcolm X that should be
repeated for the benefit of those who say that "There are extremist[s]
on both sides -- black and white" and "There is extremism and racis[m]
on both sides" -- to equate the oppressor with the oppressed is to
equate the attacker with the would-be assailant because "both" have
put up their fists for fighting.

Post by torresD
List of Black Associations
http://www.citycom.com/links/NBO1.html
There is no reason why there should not be
White Clubs, Associations, Groups,
as there are plenty of Black CLubs.
At Baruch college in NYC, there is a bullentin board
containing announcements for events that will take
place at the different clubs.
There is the Black Student Club,
The Russian Student Club,
The Pakistani Student Club,
The Korean Student Club,
The Chinese Student Club,
The Asian Student Club,
The Trinidad Student Club,
The Haitian Student Club,
The Jamaican Student Club,
The Central American Student Club,
The Latino Student Club,
The Puerto Rican Student Club,
The Dominican Student Club, etc.
This is at a City College.
Pace Univerisity is the same way.
I went to Columbia University for an event
and found the same thing.
So why can't there be a White Club.
Not to allow a White Club is racist.

[Barry Schier]

Post by torresD
You seem to think that because blacks have been the target
of discrimination, they are incapable of inflicting pain on others,
because they don't like that person's particular color, ethnic background.
You're wrong.
Blacks in positions of power can and do discriminate
against those of a different background.

Lest one forget getting into "positions of power" is either
virtue by birth into the ruling class or by proving oneself as a
willing servant of the interests of that ruling class. Thus, people
such as University of California Regent and crusader against
affirmative action Ward Connerly,
National Security Council member Condoleeza Rice, Secretary of State
Colin Powell, and a long list of others should not be seen as "Blacks
in positions of power" but those in positions serving interests of
those who have the power. (Malcolm X contemptuously described those
Blacks and other "minorities" who thought they had risen to positions
of power as "Fool at one end, cigar at the other." The term "Uncle
Tom" used to be used a generation ago.)

Post by torresD
Black people are human beings after all not saints.
And to say that because whites are the majority,
and are representated in the institutions of power

1. Capitalism is a system that is racist to the core. Whites
are not merely "... represented in the institutions of power ..."; the
institutions of power are composed of white racists and those willing
to do their bidding. That's the fight against racially discriminatory
laws and practices is (and always will be) an UPHILL FIGHT in
capitalist countries, while Cuba outlawed racial discrimination within
the first year of its Revolution. (Ending discriminatory LAWS is
not, however, synonymous with ending racial prejudices -- Cuba has
eliminated discriminatory laws; it has not eliminated RACISM and
prejudices.)
2. It is not "whites" who benefit from -- and thus further ---
discriminatory practices. Rather, it is a relative handful of whites
-- i.e., the ruling class -- who benefit from (and thus have stakes in
preserving) discriminatory practices and using their power, money, and
influence (especially through schools and the media) to try to
convince whites that because of RELATIVE privilege that they should
act in ways that go against their self-interest. (It was NOT a
coincidence that in the former "Deep South," where racist feelings ran
deepest, that workers' wages and working conditions were the worst for
Blacks AND WHITES alike.)
Moreover, there are sub-groups of "whites" who are also
discriminated against, i.e., the nationalist Catholics in northern
Ireland, the Kosovars, the Chechnians, and many others. (I leave to
ethnographers the decision of whether to add the Kurds to that or to a
different list of opppressed peoples.) And that does not touch upon
the issue of discrimination against women ("minority" and white
alike), who still receive only 70 cents for every dollar men make for
doing the same work.

Post by torresD
they should not be able to form a club of their own
and exclude non-whites, the same way that Asians,
Blacks, Caribbean Blacks, Africans, Latinos form
their own clubs and exclude others is ridiculous.

Considering the self-organization of those who have borne the
brunt of discrimination as synonymous with organization of those to
wish continue and further discrimination is to make the activity of
the victims equal to the activity of the criminals (i.e., the
racists). To repeat: "ANY [emphasis added] attempt to place an equal
sign between organizations and
efforts of the relatively privileged to deny access to others to equal
education, jobs, economic resources, etc. and organizations and
efforts of those denied to access to others to equal education, jobs,
economic resources, etc. to counteract and/or protest those conditions
is an attempt to place an equal sign between the 'victimizer' and the
victim, and as such an APOLOGY for privilege and racism under the
guise of 'equally' opposing 'both' sides.

-- Barry Schier

Post by torresD
And it won't stand.

Post by Barry Schier

Post by torresD

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?
David Duke already beat you for that name.

There is extremism and racist on both sides.

Any attempt to place an equal sign between organizations and
efforts of the relatively privileged to deny access to others to equal
education, jobs, economic resources, etc. and organizations and
efforts of those denied to access to others to equal education, jobs,
economic resources, etc. to counteract and/or protest those conditions
is an attempt to place an equal sign between the "victimizer" and the
victim, and as such an APOLOGY for privilege and racism under the
guise of "equally" opposing "both" sides. It is rather ironic that
TorresD, who seems to understand well that flag-waving of the Puerto
Rican flag and other expressions of Puerto Rican pride (i.e., the
nationalism of the oppressed, which deserves the full support of
working people and their allies) are the political opposites to U.S.
flag-waving (i.e., expressions of the national chauvinism of the
oppressor and colonial power), cannot apply the same principle to
understand that organizations, etc. of Blacks, Latinos, etc. are the
political opposite of "white clubs."
The "Black equivalents of David Duke" cannot exist, for however
much they may actually seem to have common in outlook by considering
their racial "opposites" as devils, one has the economic and political
means and power to do significant harm and damage through hatred and
discriminatory practices, while the other has little or no economic
and political means nor power.
There is the old proverb that a bucket of water cannot change
the tides; this adage should be kept in mind when considering the
comparative weight of power and income of the "races," although, as a
result of the gains of civil rights movement, this disparity is
nowhere as great as it once was. Despite all ballyhooing of "Black
capitalism" as a road to "success," the wealth, the power, etc. of
this country remain overwhelmingly in the hands of whites. The largest
Black-owned corporations produce consumer goods which solely effect
the leisure of mostly Black consumers, NOT the machines, manufactured
items, etc. that make an economy run. Johnson Publications' (which
publishes Ebony, Jet, etc.) products have weight on the coffee table,
not in world trade. The list of this country's richest Black
individuals is almost entirely composed of entertainers and athletes,
i.e., those who effect the policies and outcome of their television
programs and sports, not power to directly make (or change) the
policies of the country. (While Bill Cosby, among the richest Blacks
in America, is almost universally recognized as an actor / comedian,
few people even know that he has a Doctorate in education, let alone
what his strong views about that subject are.) The payroll of just
the Top 5 corporations exceeds the TOTAL number of people employed by
ALL Black-owned corporations. (Wal-Mart, with a million-plus
employees, has been frequently named as defendant for discriminatory
practices.) The very largest Black-owned steel maker has only a few
dozen employees; similar statistics apply to companies involved in
energy and all those other arenas that are the backbone of an economic
infrastructure.
The meteoric rise of a Black "separatist" group (with about
750,000 sympathizers at its apex), Elijah Muhammed's Nation of Islam
more than a generation ago was because there were large numbers of
Blacks whose sole observation of whites' behavior was observation of
covert or overt racist behavior. This, and NOT the "mirror side" of
racial hatred was behind the receptivity of many Blacks of the message
that white people were "devils." As the civil rights movement and the
struggle against colonialism became massive movements, with large
layers of whites visibly backing those Black-led movements, the
objective basis for so many believing in "whites as devils" philosophy
disappeared. The evolution of Malcolm X -- from advocate (and
principal spokesperson) of the Nation of Islam and its perspective to
a great revolutionary leader who gained the understanding that the
oppressed must lead their own struggles, but must be willing to
collaborate with any sharing their perspective and program - reflected
this. (The negative attitude of the leadership of the "Black Muslims"
towards political action, women's rights, etc. were also key factors
in Malcolm's departure from that group; but that's another matter that
I won't cover in this already-too-long message.)
The Nation of Islam split (almost disintegrating) with most
following the wing which dropped the previous whites-as-devils
ideology. There now seems to be more newspaper (and Internet)
column-inches devoted to adherents of the "old" philosophy than there
are members of the group that stayed adhering with the old ways and
views. However, the contributions of Malcolm X continue to gain more
and more of the recognition that they should have received during his
lifetime.
And there's one key contribution of Malcolm X that should be
repeated for the benefit of those who say that "There are extremist[s]
on both sides -- black and white" and "There is extremism and racis[m]
on both sides" -- to equate the oppressor with the oppressed is to
equate the attacker with the would-be assailant because "both" have
put up their fists for fighting.
[-- Barry Schier]

Post by torresD
List of Black Associations
http://www.citycom.com/links/NBO1.html
There is no reason why there should not be
White Clubs, Associations, Groups,
as there are plenty of Black CLubs.
At Baruch college in NYC, there is a bullentin board
containing announcements for events that will take
place at the different clubs.
There is the Black Student Club,
The Russian Student Club,
The Pakistani Student Club,
The Korean Student Club,
The Chinese Student Club,
The Asian Student Club,
The Trinidad Student Club,
The Haitian Student Club,
The Jamaican Student Club,
The Central American Student Club,
The Latino Student Club,
The Puerto Rican Student Club,
The Dominican Student Club, etc.
This is at a City College.
Pace Univerisity is the same way.
I went to Columbia University for an event
and found the same thing.
So why can't there be a White Club.
Not to allow a White Club is racist.

[x***@erols.com]

Post by unknown

Post by torresD

Post by Super Duty
Right on! Finally we find something you and I agree on.

If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

[Mark K]

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by unknown

Post by torresD
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

What is NAACP about?
What is NAAWP about?

[x***@erols.com]

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by unknown

Post by torresD
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

What is NAACP about?
What is NAAWP about?

Google them.

[Mark K]

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by unknown

Post by torresD
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

What is NAACP about?
What is NAAWP about?

Google them.

Good idea. Not having the time, my guess is:
No different than what ADL is about,
Though not as KGB-like as ADL.

[x***@erols.com]

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by unknown

Post by torresD
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

What is NAACP about?
What is NAAWP about?

Google them.

No different than what ADL is about,
Though not as KGB-like as ADL.

You seriously don't know what they are?!

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
was a combination political action group, scholarship fund
and professional association for colored people
(thats what african-americans were back in the olden days)
during a time when the equivalent organisations for whites were
only for whites.

National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

[Mark K]

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by unknown

Post by torresD
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

What is NAACP about?
What is NAAWP about?

Google them.

No different than what ADL is about,
Though not as KGB-like as ADL.

You seriously don't know what they are?!
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
was a combination political action group, scholarship fund
and professional association for colored people
(thats what african-americans were back in the olden days)
during a time when the equivalent organisations for whites were
only for whites.
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

I am not contradicting you.
But what criteria do you use to determine a racist group?

[x***@erols.com]

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com

Post by unknown

Post by torresD
If there is an NAACP,
National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People, than why not a National
Association for the Advancement of White people?

David Duke already beat you for that name.

And we know what that group is about.

What is NAACP about?
What is NAAWP about?

Google them.

No different than what ADL is about,
Though not as KGB-like as ADL.

You seriously don't know what they are?!
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
was a combination political action group, scholarship fund
and professional association for colored people
(thats what african-americans were back in the olden days)
during a time when the equivalent organisations for whites were
only for whites.
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

I am not contradicting you.
But what criteria do you use to determine a racist group?

A group whose membership is restricted to 1 race.
The group believes its own race is the "best" by whatever
criteria they pull out of their hats.
The group believes the other races are "worse" by whatever criteria they
pull out of their hats.

These two different criteria may be the same for different races,
just interpreted differently depending on which race is being described.

The group hates the other races, though recently some white racist
groups have been denying that they hate anybody ie david duke
and his naawp.
The group has plans of varying stupidity to conquer the world for
themselves.
The group has a mythical or semi mythical history of its race.

[William J. Wolfe]

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

I am not contradicting you.
But what criteria do you use to determine a racist group?

Any group which places emphasis on Whiteness and being proud of being White.

[Mark K]

Post by William J. Wolfe

Post by Mark K

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

I am not contradicting you.
But what criteria do you use to determine a racist group?

Any group which places emphasis on
Whiteness and being proud of being White.

But isn't this pride in the elitism, supremacism and separatism
of one's race part and parcel of Judaism and Christianity?


Torah: Deuteronomy 7:1-6

1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to
possess and drives out before you many nations--the Hittites, Girgashites,
Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations
larger and stronger than you--

2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have
defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with
them, and show them no mercy.

3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or
take their daughters for your sons,

4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods,
and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.

5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their
sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the
fire.

6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has
chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his
people, his treasured possession.

[torresD]

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
was a combination political action group, scholarship fund
and professional association for colored people
(thats what african-americans were back in the olden days)
during a time when the equivalent organisations for whites were
only for whites.

But this is a different country now, blacks are competing not
just against whites, but asians, latinos, jews, etc.

Since in America, there are clubs based on racial and ethnic
considerations, a trip to any college campus and a look at
the bullentin boards will attest to that, whites should have
the right to do the same.

Blacks have their own clubs, based on race,
and then they break it down along ethnic lines,
so you can see the Haitian Club, Nigerian Club,
Kenya Club, Caribbean Black Club, just look at
any college bullentin board and see for yourself.

Latinos have their own clubs as well.
Even Irish, Italian, Russians have their own clubs.
However, there isn't a group called
The White Association of this and that,
like there are groups called The Black Association
of this and that.

It's not enough to say that whites are the majority
and thereby the defacto rulers, and therefore cannot
form their own clubs.

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

David Duke is an example of an extremist and that should
be rejected.

But there can be White Clubs geared towards the
advancement of the White Race, just like there are Black,
Latino, Asian Clubs geared toward their advancement.

[Mark K]

Post by torresD
Since in America, there are clubs based on racial and ethnic
considerations, a trip to any college campus and a look at
the bullentin boards will attest to that, whites should have
the right to do the same.
Blacks have their own clubs, based on race,
and then they break it down along ethnic lines,
so you can see the Haitian Club, Nigerian Club,
Kenya Club, Caribbean Black Club, just look at
any college bullentin board and see for yourself.
Latinos have their own clubs as well.
Even Irish, Italian, Russians have their own clubs.
However, there isn't a group called
The White Association of this and that,
like there are groups called The Black Association
of this and that.
It's not enough to say that whites are the majority
and thereby the defacto rulers, and therefore cannot
form their own clubs.

http://www.heretical.com/miscella/culturec.html

"Celebrating Diversity

Prof. MacDonald claims that one of the most consistent ways in which Jews
have advanced their interests has been to promote pluralism and diversity -
but only for others.

Ever since the 19th century, they have led movements that tried to
discredit the traditional foundations of gentile society: patriotism,
racial loyalty, the Christian basis for morality, social homogeneity, and
sexual restraint.

At the same time, within their own communities, and with regard to the
state of Israel, they have often supported the very institutions they
attack in gentile society.

Why is this in the interests of Jews?

Because the parochial group loyalty characteristic of Jews attracts far
less attention in a society that does not have a cohesive racial and
cultural core.

The Jewish determination not to assimilate fully, which accounts for their
survival as a people for thousands for years - even without a country - has
invariably attracted unpleasant and even murderous scrutiny in nations with
well -defined national identities.

In Prof. MacDonald's view it is therefore in the interest of Jews to dilute
and weaken the identity of any people among whom they live.

Jewish identity can flower in safety only when gentile identity is weak.

Prof. MacDonald quotes a remarkable passage from Charles Silberman:
"American Jews are committed to cultural tolerance because of their
belief - one firmly rooted in history - that Jews are safe only in a
society acceptant of a wide range of attitudes and behaviors, as well as a
diversity of religious and ethnic groups.

It is this belief, for example, not approval of homosexuality, that leads
an overwhelming majority of American Jews to endorse 'gay rights' and to
take a liberal stance on most other so-called 'social' issues."

He is saying, in effect, that when Jews make the diversity-is-our-strength
argument it is in support of their real goal of diluting a society's
homogeneity so that Jews will feel safe.

They are couching a Jewish agenda in terms they think gentiles will accept.

Likewise, as the second part of the Silberman quotation suggests, Jews may
support deviant movements, not because they think it is good for the
country but because it is good for the Jews."

[x***@erols.com]

Post by torresD

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
was a combination political action group, scholarship fund
and professional association for colored people
(thats what african-americans were back in the olden days)
during a time when the equivalent organisations for whites were
only for whites.

But this is a different country now, blacks are competing not
just against whites, but asians, latinos, jews, etc.
Since in America, there are clubs based on racial and ethnic
considerations, a trip to any college campus and a look at
the bullentin boards will attest to that, whites should have
the right to do the same.
Blacks have their own clubs, based on race,
and then they break it down along ethnic lines,
so you can see the Haitian Club, Nigerian Club,
Kenya Club, Caribbean Black Club, just look at
any college bullentin board and see for yourself.
Latinos have their own clubs as well.
Even Irish, Italian, Russians have their own clubs.
However, there isn't a group called
The White Association of this and that,
like there are groups called The Black Association
of this and that.
It's not enough to say that whites are the majority
and thereby the defacto rulers, and therefore cannot
form their own clubs.

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

David Duke is an example of an extremist and that should
be rejected.
But there can be White Clubs geared towards the
advancement of the White Race, just like there are Black,
Latino, Asian Clubs geared toward their advancement.

Thats not the point.
Someone suggested national association for the advancement of white
people
as the name of a clum, apparently not realising what david duke
has been doing.

[torresD]

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

There are extremist on both sides black and white.
The black equivalentes of David Duke exist.

Inside the Black and Jewish Fight Clubs at the Anti-KKK Rally
The Hate That Hate Produced
by Peter Noel
October 27 - November 2, 1999
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9943/noel.php

I see groups of Black Israelites out on NYC streets,
preaching the same thing that David Duke does,
except in reverse.

They want black only everything.

Fine, let them have it, it's their choice.

[ßÅÐŧ§]

Post by torresD
There are extremist on both sides black and white.
The black equivalentes of David Duke exist.

So do Hispanic ones among the Reconquistas.

[x***@erols.com]

Post by torresD

Post by x***@erols.com
National Association for the Advancement of White People
is a racist group started by David Duke. He used to be
in various traditional racist groups, but he found that
this harmed his career as a politition. He started
this group thinking if he gave it a non racist sounding name
it would fool someone, sort of like east germany calling itself
a democratic republic.

There are extremist on both sides black and white.
The black equivalentes of David Duke exist.
Inside the Black and Jewish Fight Clubs at the Anti-KKK Rally
The Hate That Hate Produced
by Peter Noel
October 27 - November 2, 1999
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9943/noel.php
I see groups of Black Israelites out on NYC streets,
preaching the same thing that David Duke does,
except in reverse.
They want black only everything.
Fine, let them have it, it's their choice.

Thats not the point.
Someone suggested national association for the advancement of white
people
as the name of a clum, apparently not realising what david duke
has been doing.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

<snip>:

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.

Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

[nobody]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white...

...and clearly hit a nerve. she busted you balls, didn't she?
Hahahahahaha.

[torresD]

Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.

Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

[Ray]

It's Ok to have a "white" club as long as its purpose is not to promote
hatred toward other cultures.

The problem in the U.S. is that "white" organizations purpose is to promote
hatred toward other cultures, something you don't see in other clubs.

Have you ever heard the NAACP promote hatred toward whites as one of their
agendas? No way.

Post by torresD
Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.
Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

[ELurio]

<< Have you ever heard the NAACP promote hatred toward whites as one of their
agendas? No way. >><BR><BR>

Actually, in the last few years, they have.

the NAACP was founded by Jews, y'know.

eric l.

[Poop Dogg]

Post by Ray
It's Ok to have a "white" club as long as its purpose is not to promote
hatred toward other cultures.

Why not? The last time I looked we still had freedom of speech in
the U.S. If the kids want to form a Nazi club and wear swastikas
that is their constitutional right.

Post by Ray
The problem in the U.S. is that "white" organizations purpose is to promote
hatred toward other cultures, something you don't see in other clubs.

How do you know what goes on in the other clubs? For all we know
the kids in the Black Club spend their time making fun of whites.
And the very nature of Christianity teaches that it is the only
true religion and therefore attacks those of other religions or
no religion at all - so why should Christian clubs be allowed?

Post by Ray
Have you ever heard the NAACP promote hatred toward whites as one of their
agendas? No way.

Sure they do. While not as radical as the Nation of Islam, the
NAACP regularly bitches about black oppression at the hands of
white people. It really is not much different that Germans
whining about Jews.

[Mark K]

Post by Poop Dogg

Post by Ray
It's Ok to have a "white" club as long as its
purpose is not to promote hatred toward other cultures.

Why not? The last time I looked we still had freedom
of speech in the U.S. If the kids want to form a Nazi
club and wear swastikas that is their constitutional right.

Or if kids want to form a Jewish club and wear
six-pointed stars, that is their constitutional right.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by torresD
Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.
Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Actually, the whole idea behind an "all White Club" is obcene
at best, ridiculous at worst. Why? Everything in the US is white
by default... and any white person who is unaware of this fact
should be hanged - on general principles alone.... OK, they should
all be hanged for stupidity, sorry.

Kafou

[Von Bailey]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by torresD
Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.
Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Actually, the whole idea behind an "all White Club" is obcene
at best, ridiculous at worst. Why? Everything in the US is white
by default... and any white person who is unaware of this fact
should be hanged - on general principles alone.... OK, they should
all be hanged for stupidity, sorry.

The original article said that ANYONE could join. So the premise is
not an 'all white club'. While I don't see the purpose of such a club
as most of american social and historic aspects wrt education are
based on white concepts so as you say, 'it is the default'. But that
shouldn't limit people from getting together and talking about how
wonderful it is to be white, the benefits of white culture or whatever
they choose to speak about when they meet.

I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club). I never
understood why schools needed clubs based on race anyway so one more
is no better or worse than the others unless it's objectives are to
harm others.

von

[Mudda Lann Newz Servus]

Post by Von Bailey
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club).

Are you prepeared to likewise condemn members of a club of any other ethnic
group that would advocate violence against others not of their group ?

Just curious how widespread your condemnation of such violence
is..................

[Poop Dogg]

Someone suggested that a Caucasian club be allowed as long as its
membership was open to people of all races and that it didn't
discuss negative things about minorities.

Should other race- and religion-based groups also be made to
comply with this requirement? I seriously doubt that any school's
"Black Student Union" admits non-blacks as members. The same
for religion-based clubs. Does the Christian Student Association
allow atheists and satanists to join its club? Of course not!

The First Amendment not only guarantees freedom of speech, but
also freedom of association. That means that Americans may
freely choose who they wish to associate with, and conversely
it allows them to refuse to associate with those they dislike
or disagree with. So a Caucasian Club has every right to
restrict its membership to whites only, as do the Black, Latino,
and other student organizations have the right to restrict
their memberships too. No one would suggest that B'nai Brith
or the Jewish Anti-Defamation League be required to admit
neo-nazis as members in the name of "diversity."

If the Caucasian Club is permitted to operate with the mandate that
it be open to everyone, then the white students, atheist students,
etc. should flood the other race- and religion-based clubs until
those organizations are unable to function.

[unknown]

Post by Poop Dogg
Someone suggested that a Caucasian club be allowed as long as its
membership was open to people of all races and that it didn't
discuss negative things about minorities.
Should other race- and religion-based groups also be made to
comply with this requirement? I seriously doubt that any school's
"Black Student Union" admits non-blacks as members.

If their rules *specifically* exclude whites, that would be plainly
illegal, assuming that they are sanctioned by the school, have their
offices on campus, and are receiving campus funds (some of which in
turn comes from The Government). If anyone knows of such a group that
claims to exclude "whitey", it should immediately be brought to the
atttention of the proper authorities.

Now, they can do all in their power to make whites uncomfortable, but
that would be technically legal.

[x***@erols.com]

Post by Poop Dogg
Someone suggested that a Caucasian club be allowed as long as its
membership was open to people of all races and that it didn't
discuss negative things about minorities.
Should other race- and religion-based groups also be made to
comply with this requirement? I seriously doubt that any school's
"Black Student Union" admits non-blacks as members. The same
for religion-based clubs. Does the Christian Student Association
allow atheists and satanists to join its club? Of course not!
The First Amendment not only guarantees freedom of speech, but
also freedom of association. That means that Americans may
freely choose who they wish to associate with, and conversely
it allows them to refuse to associate with those they dislike
or disagree with. So a Caucasian Club has every right to
restrict its membership to whites only, as do the Black, Latino,
and other student organizations have the right to restrict
their memberships too. No one would suggest that B'nai Brith
or the Jewish Anti-Defamation League be required to admit
neo-nazis as members in the name of "diversity."

If the students act white, they may not have to
exclude others.

I read a magazine article printed in 1907 about coloreds passing for
white.
One got into the white section of a steamboat and the other got on
a white railroad car. They both agreed white people are no fun at all.
The one on the steamboat left the white section and joined the
barbecue/dance party the coloreds had set up on the lower deck.
The one on the train had nowhere to go. He said the white man
in his compartment was cold and distant, even though they talked
politics for a few hours.

95 years later the new york times runs a story about a mixed race
student
who is always trying to get her black and white friends together.
They not only separate into two groups, they also do different things.
At her graduation party the black guests turned up the stereo and
danced,
the white guests stayed in the basement and talked.

Post by Poop Dogg
If the Caucasian Club is permitted to operate with the mandate that
it be open to everyone, then the white students, atheist students,
etc. should flood the other race- and religion-based clubs until
those organizations are unable to function.

[Von Bailey]

Post by Mudda Lann Newz Servus

Post by Von Bailey
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club).

Are you prepeared to likewise condemn members of a club of any other ethnic
group that would advocate violence against others not of their group ?
Just curious how widespread your condemnation of such violence
is..................

I didn't 'condemn' the formation of this group.

Regardless, I feel the same wrt any school club that gets together to
discuss violent methods of relating to others.

von

[Mudda Lann Newz Servus]

Post by Von Bailey

Post by Mudda Lann Newz Servus

Post by Von Bailey
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club).

Are you prepeared to likewise condemn members of a club of any other ethnic
group that would advocate violence against others not of their group ?
Just curious how widespread your condemnation of such violence
is..................

I didn't 'condemn' the formation of this group.

no one said you 'condemend' anything

learn to read, fuckwit

jesus, mary and joseph, VoR is right, you are one dumb sumbitch

Post by Von Bailey
Regardless, I feel the same wrt any school club that gets together to
discuss violent methods of relating to others.

nice dance

care to put that in plain-speak ?

[Von Bailey]

Post by Super Duty

Post by Von Bailey

Post by Mudda Lann Newz Servus

Post by Von Bailey
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club).

Are you prepeared to likewise condemn members of a club of any other

ethnic

Post by Von Bailey

Post by Mudda Lann Newz Servus
group that would advocate violence against others not of their group ?
Just curious how widespread your condemnation of such violence
is..................

I didn't 'condemn' the formation of this group.

no one said you 'condemend' anything

One of the pitfalls of dealing with a stupidity is that stupid people
don't even remember what they said. The phrase 'prepared to likewise
condemn' taken from your previous post implicity says that a
condemnation of something was done. You not being bright enough to
read your own post is not surprising at all, simply another pitfall of
dealing with stupidity.

Post by Super Duty

Post by Von Bailey
Regardless, I feel the same wrt any school club that gets together to
discuss violent methods of relating to others.

nice dance
care to put that in plain-speak ?

What words don't you understand?

von

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by Von Bailey

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by torresD
Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.
Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Actually, the whole idea behind an "all White Club" is obcene
at best, ridiculous at worst. Why? Everything in the US is white
by default... and any white person who is unaware of this fact
should be hanged - on general principles alone.... OK, they should
all be hanged for stupidity, sorry.

The original article said that ANYONE could join. So the premise is
not an 'all white club'. While I don't see the purpose of such a club
as most of american social and historic aspects wrt education are
based on white concepts so as you say, 'it is the default'. But that
shouldn't limit people from getting together and talking about how
wonderful it is to be white, the benefits of white culture or whatever
they choose to speak about when they meet.

But, that is my whole point. White folks don't need a club to do
that sh*t. They do it as a matter of course.

Post by Von Bailey
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club).

I dunno..... I would be suspicious of a bunch of white kids holding
meetings at the exclusion of others. I would think it's a college
chapter of the KKK or the neo-nazis.

Kafou

[Poop Dogg]

Post by Kafou Lobo
I dunno..... I would be suspicious of a bunch of white kids holding
meetings at the exclusion of others. I would think it's a college
chapter of the KKK or the neo-nazis.

But who really gives a fuck what you think? And even if it were
a chapter of the KKK or Aryan Nations, the Constitution guarantees
their right to assemble (peacefully of course) and speak freely.

There might be a chapter of the American Muslim Association or
even the Nation of Islam on campus. I might rightly assume that
they are a bunch of terrorists plotting to overthrow the U.S.
government, or at least ranting about a bunch of "white devils,"
but I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to defend their right to assemble
and speak.

[Von Bailey]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Von Bailey

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by torresD
Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.
Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Actually, the whole idea behind an "all White Club" is obcene
at best, ridiculous at worst. Why? Everything in the US is white
by default... and any white person who is unaware of this fact
should be hanged - on general principles alone.... OK, they should
all be hanged for stupidity, sorry.

The original article said that ANYONE could join. So the premise is
not an 'all white club'. While I don't see the purpose of such a club
as most of american social and historic aspects wrt education are
based on white concepts so as you say, 'it is the default'. But that
shouldn't limit people from getting together and talking about how
wonderful it is to be white, the benefits of white culture or whatever
they choose to speak about when they meet.

But, that is my whole point. White folks don't need a club to do
that sh*t. They do it as a matter of course.

Well, with all due respect, I don't think that you should be able to
decide what 'white people need' as part of their educational processes
any more than white people should be able to determine what black
people need. If, even given a social structure designed specifically
for them, they still feel insecure that is not for you to determine.
Whatever facility that they can put together that doesn't involved
harming others that also allows them that feeling of security I have
no problem with. I am only concerned when emotional or physical
violence is part of the solution.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Von Bailey
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club).

I dunno..... I would be suspicious of a bunch of white kids holding
meetings at the exclusion of others. I would think it's a college
chapter of the KKK or the neo-nazis.

Which, with all due respect, is bigotry. It is entirely plausible for
white people to get together and not discuss other races in a negative
manner. To say that white groups would lean towards a particular type
of group (i.e. violent in nature) is no better than the ignorant
statements made by whites who accuse the NOI of violent intentions
because they are a black group regardless of the fact that they cannot
point to any violence perpetuated by them.

Unless the 'caucasian club' starts strutting around campus
intimidating others who are not white and takes on the symbols of the
KKK or, neo-nazis to assume they are going to become such on the basis
of their skin color is bigotry.

von

von

[William J. Wolfe]

Post by Kafou Lobo
I dunno..... I would be suspicious of a bunch of white kids holding
meetings at the exclusion of others. I would think it's a college
chapter of the KKK or the neo-nazis.

Yeah, being a brain dead shitsKKKin, its no surprise that your ape
brain would dream that fantasy up.

Post by Kafou Lobo
Kaffir

[Mark K]

Post by Kafou Lobo
I dunno..... I would be suspicious of a bunch of white kids holding
meetings at the exclusion of others. I would think it's a college
chapter of the KKK or the neo-nazis.

Would you also be afraid of Jewish kids doing the same?

Would you consider them to be a college chapter
of the KKK (KutKoxKlub) or Zionazis?

[unknown]

Post by Von Bailey

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by torresD
Hey if there is a Black Social Workers Association,
Association of Black Judges, The NAACP,
Asian Clubs, La Raza, Indian Clubs,
why not have The White Club.
Not to do so, would be discriminatory.

Actually, the whole idea behind an "all White Club" is obcene
at best, ridiculous at worst. Why? Everything in the US is white
by default... and any white person who is unaware of this fact
should be hanged - on general principles alone.... OK, they should
all be hanged for stupidity, sorry.

The original article said that ANYONE could join. So the premise is
not an 'all white club'. While I don't see the purpose of such a club
as most of american social and historic aspects wrt education are
based on white concepts so as you say, 'it is the default'. But that
shouldn't limit people from getting together and talking about how
wonderful it is to be white, the benefits of white culture or whatever
they choose to speak about when they meet.
I have no issue with a 'white club' at a school. If they can get
people to get together and discuss 'whiteness' or whatever so be it.
I would only be opposed if it turned into meetings that preached
violent actions against others who are not white (which would probably
be surpressed by any non-white members of the club). I never
understood why schools needed clubs based on race anyway so one more
is no better or worse than the others unless it's objectives are to
harm others.

Well for once I gotta agree with you.

[wgodfrey]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

It is certainly NOT a matter of being retarded. Historically, all the
minority associations were created because of exclusion and the consequent
need to network for professional reasons.

At this point when, at least in theory, everything is open to all, it's
either that we are going to see the demise of ethnic associations and clubs
or every group has to have the right to form its own associations.

There is no getting away from that.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

It is certainly NOT a matter of being retarded.

Retardation in this instance was a metaphor for stupidity.
I somehow expected people like you to grasp the subtlety....
I have also been accused of having dispensed too much
credit - based on sheer regionalism.

Post by wgodfrey
Historically, all the
minority associations were created because of exclusion and the consequent
need to network for professional reasons.

Okay.... and your point is????

Post by wgodfrey
At this point when, at least in theory, everything is open to all,

.....in theory, yes. So, your rhetorical counterpoint is pretty much
negated, don't you agree?

Post by wgodfrey
it's
either that we are going to see the demise of ethnic associations and clubs
or every group has to have the right to form its own associations.

Nonsense! Said associations exist only because of the systematic
inequities. I suspect you know it, trolling is so unbecoming of people
like you. Please, don't disappoint me. Thanks.

Post by wgodfrey
There is no getting away from that.

Yeah well, you live in Canada..... You and I may NOT be wiewing things
through the same lenses.....

While the US is a very generous country, I am still not willing to
give her a free pass on certain topics. This country has sent her
white sons into outer spaces, why are some of her black sons still
living in ghettoes or in jails?

Kafou

[wgodfrey]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. The basic problem appears to
be that in the generally confrontational society that is N. America Blacks
cannot find the space to disagree among themselves without all sorts of
accusations flying about "Uncle Tomism", ulterior motives, trolling, etc. So
there is a certain lack of critical spirit when certain issues come up.
People "get religion" and all is a matter of "faith". Some of the discussion
on Egypt can serve as an example

As has been pointed out by someone when everything is white by default,
there is hardly much need to form a club to celebrate white culture.
Everybody in a sense, by just living in North America pays daily tribute to
white culture. But the point is that if Whites want to form a club
especially in California, who on earth or in hell has the right to deny them
that right no matter how suspect people view it or how "subtle" the move
really is. There is freedom of association after all.

Is anyone going to seek legislation to prevent it? It would indeed be a
Phyrric victory leading to a terrible backlash. In any case nobody has the
power to prevent it.

You mention the issue of "This country has sent her white sons into outer
spaces, why are some of her black sons still living in ghettoes or in
jails?" The implication is that white society continues to be directly
responsible for all social malfunction among Blacks. Well, all I will say
is that the increasing success of immigrant groups will put an end to that
type of "logic".

Don't give me any "credit" based on sheer "regionalism". If you find that ad
hominem arguments impress most of the folks, go right ahead. I have reached
the stage where it is like water on a duck's back. In the long run everyone
is better served by frank logical discussion, IMHO.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

It is certainly NOT a matter of being retarded.

Retardation in this instance was a metaphor for stupidity.
I somehow expected people like you to grasp the subtlety....
I have also been accused of having dispensed too much
credit - based on sheer regionalism.

Post by wgodfrey
Historically, all the
minority associations were created because of exclusion and the consequent
need to network for professional reasons.

Okay.... and your point is????

Post by wgodfrey
At this point when, at least in theory, everything is open to all,

.....in theory, yes. So, your rhetorical counterpoint is pretty much
negated, don't you agree?

Post by wgodfrey
it's
either that we are going to see the demise of ethnic associations and clubs
or every group has to have the right to form its own associations.

Nonsense! Said associations exist only because of the systematic
inequities. I suspect you know it, trolling is so unbecoming of people
like you. Please, don't disappoint me. Thanks.

Post by wgodfrey
There is no getting away from that.

Yeah well, you live in Canada..... You and I may NOT be wiewing things
through the same lenses.....
While the US is a very generous country, I am still not willing to
give her a free pass on certain topics. This country has sent her
white sons into outer spaces, why are some of her black sons still
living in ghettoes or in jails?
Kafou

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by wgodfrey
But the point is that if Whites want to form a club
especially in California, who on earth or in hell has the right to deny them
that right no matter how suspect people view it or how "subtle" the move
really is.

You may NOT believe this, but there are such things as common sense
and decency.... some people still abide by them.

Post by wgodfrey
You mention the issue of "This country has sent her white sons into outer
spaces, why are some of her black sons still living in ghettoes or in
jails?" The implication is that white society continues to be directly
responsible for all social malfunction among Blacks.

I am not sure I said that, but yes, this country and her institutuions
have never been too generous towards black folks.

Post by wgodfrey
Well, all I will say
is that the increasing success of immigrant groups will put an end to that
type of "logic".

You are actually proving my point..... This country is much more
severe towards African-Americans than say.... Jamaicans.
I suspect the historical dynamics may have something to do with
this....

Post by wgodfrey
Don't give me any "credit" based on sheer "regionalism". If you find that ad
hominem arguments impress most of the folks, go right ahead.

Where is this coming from? What ad-hominem attacks?

Post by wgodfrey
I have reached the stage where it is like water on a duck's back.

Yeah well.....whatever.

Post by wgodfrey
In the long run everyone
is better served by frank logical discussion, IMHO.

You live in Canada, you may NOT have the moral authority to discuss
black folks in the US. Thinking otherwise may be viewed as cultural
arrogance. But, it's your dime and your time, spend them with abandon.

Kafou

[wgodfrey]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey
But the point is that if Whites want to form a club
especially in California, who on earth or in hell has the right to deny them
that right no matter how suspect people view it or how "subtle" the move
really is.

You may NOT believe this, but there are such things as common sense
and decency.... some people still abide by them.

Common sense and decency are personal traits, up to individuals to assess. A
Caucasian club made up possibly of Chechens, Berbers, Turks, the Ainu,
Arabs, Jews, some Latinos, and Europeans shouldn't make anyone loose sleep.

I have listened to crap spoken in a US University Center by members of the
Black Muslims and if I'd owned a cell phone at the time I might have phoned
the police to bring about an arrest. You can't really stop people believing
and talking shit.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey
You mention the issue of "This country has sent her white sons into outer
spaces, why are some of her black sons still living in ghettoes or in
jails?" The implication is that white society continues to be directly
responsible for all social malfunction among Blacks.

I am not sure I said that, but yes, this country and her institutuions
have never been too generous towards black folks.

Perhaps not but now is the time to fend for oneself and prosper and NOT to
be dependent on others' generosity.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey
Well, all I will say
is that the increasing success of immigrant groups will put an end to that
type of "logic".

You are actually proving my point..... This country is much more
severe towards African-Americans than say.... Jamaicans.
I suspect the historical dynamics may have something to do with
this....

If you really think that whites people waste time differentiating between a
pack of "niggers" you really under a great illusion. Whatever the role of
historical dynamics everybody must understand that expecting charity is
basically a thing of the past.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey
Don't give me any "credit" based on sheer "regionalism". If you find that ad
hominem arguments impress most of the folks, go right ahead.

Where is this coming from? What ad-hominem attacks?

Once you start talking about trolling, disapppointnment and condescendingly
giving "credit"
(BTW, affirmative action is on the way out) instead of sticking to a
discussion of the issue itself, it seems that you are tending to make the
issue personal. Don't hold back your fire.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey
I have reached the stage where it is like water on a duck's back.

Yeah well.....whatever.

Post by wgodfrey
In the long run everyone
is better served by frank logical discussion, IMHO.

You live in Canada, you may NOT have the moral authority to discuss
black folks in the US. Thinking otherwise may be viewed as cultural
arrogance. But, it's your dime and your time, spend them with abandon.

Before coming to Canada I lived in the US and I've travelled there more
widely than I have in Canada. Any I haven't lived much longer in Canada so
far than I have in the US. But in any case you are the one who brought up
the issue of Blacks in the US. I'm discussing Caucasians and the right to
form a club.

[RabidAC]

Cause they are either too stupid or too criminal if not both.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

It is certainly NOT a matter of being retarded.

Retardation in this instance was a metaphor for stupidity.
I somehow expected people like you to grasp the subtlety....
I have also been accused of having dispensed too much
credit - based on sheer regionalism.

Post by wgodfrey
Historically, all the
minority associations were created because of exclusion and the consequent
need to network for professional reasons.

Okay.... and your point is????

Post by wgodfrey
At this point when, at least in theory, everything is open to all,

.....in theory, yes. So, your rhetorical counterpoint is pretty much
negated, don't you agree?

Post by wgodfrey
it's
either that we are going to see the demise of ethnic associations and clubs
or every group has to have the right to form its own associations.

Nonsense! Said associations exist only because of the systematic
inequities. I suspect you know it, trolling is so unbecoming of people
like you. Please, don't disappoint me. Thanks.

Post by wgodfrey
There is no getting away from that.

Yeah well, you live in Canada..... You and I may NOT be wiewing things
through the same lenses.....
While the US is a very generous country, I am still not willing to
give her a free pass on certain topics. This country has sent her
white sons into outer spaces, why are some of her black sons still
living in ghettoes or in jails?
Kafou

[William J. Wolfe]

Post by Kafou Lobo
While the US is a very generous country, I am still not willing to
give her a free pass on certain topics. This country has sent her
white sons into outer spaces, why are some of her black sons still
living in ghettoes or in jails?

Fuck knows. Why do niggers prefer a life of crime? Its the choice made
entirely by the simian shitsKKKins.

As for space monkeys, stupid nigger, monkeys had their turn at space
travel forty years ago. Now its time for Humans to enjoy space travel.

Post by Kafou Lobo
Kaffir

[RabidAC]

You are probably a Moron and Black.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Girl is probably retarded and white.....
USA: A country created by white folks, FOR white folks.
Kafou "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty." Lobo

[Apache]

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Why should anyone care? As long as the price of gasoline is kept below
$1.12, you yanks don't care.


When I was teaching hockey 26 years ago in San Diego, we had 3 Black guys
from Toronto who freaked the shit out the Californians!


It was never about Black guys with solid and hard Victoriaville or Sherwood
sticks on sharp blades that freaked them out, it was the fact that 18
year-olds in San Diego had never seen a Black kid skate circles around them.
It wasn't pretty when a fight started though ;).


I worked with a friend to start a "White Student Union" at my University
later that year. I'm (arguably) no bigot, but it was shut down in '77.


Bottom line. It's been done before. Just try to improve your pathetic
situation, don't raise some fucking issue like it's new.

Grow up.

[Super Duty]

Post by Apache

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School

Why should anyone care? As long as the price of gasoline is kept below
$1.12, you yanks don't care.

--------------------------------------------

?????????????????????
?????????????????????

What's your point?

[Barry Schier]

1. There already is a White Club in almost all schools and school
districts: It goes by the name of School Board, Board of Trustees,
etc.!
And for those who ask(ed) why there's demands for Black Studies,
Chicano Studies, American Indian Studies, Asian-Pacific Studies, etc.
programs but none for White Studies programs, there already are White
Studies programs in every school: those classes are called History,
Social Studies, etc.!
The purpose of ethnic studies classes (and clubs such as MEChA,
Black Student Unions, etc.) is to provide access to that which a
racist curriculum (and often racist or naive faculty members) deny
them: their history and past (and current) collective and individual
accomplishments -- as well as encouragement to continue as students
despite racist "tracking" which "guides" "minority" students into
pursuits other than higher education -- especially into the military.
"Ethnic pride" by those from "Third World" countries and their
descendants is an assertion of self-worth, pride, and dignity in the
face of a racist world; the "patriotism" of Euro-Americans and their
descendants is waving the banner of privilege and centuries of
domination and mistreatment of others. Moreover, not all those whose
ancestry is of European origin are the "privileged" groups; some are
oppressed, including Quebecois (i.e., the so-called
"French-Canadians), Kosovars (i.e., Albanians in what was Yugoslavia),
Irish Republicans, and others.
-- Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003
OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move toward
diversity, not bigotry.
She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.
McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic, Dutch,
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.
McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.
One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice president
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[wgodfrey]

You can't really be faulted on what you say Barry, but what is to be done
about the attempt to form a Caucasian Club open to all Caucasians (Indians,
Arabs, the Ainu, Berbers, Turks, etc.) and all others who want the right to
meet and socialize in what might appear to be a somewhat threatening
environment (California)? Ban it? In other words, take a page out of your
favorite country, Cuba?

Post by Barry Schier
1. There already is a White Club in almost all schools and school
districts: It goes by the name of School Board, Board of Trustees,
etc.!
And for those who ask(ed) why there's demands for Black Studies,
Chicano Studies, American Indian Studies, Asian-Pacific Studies, etc.
programs but none for White Studies programs, there already are White
Studies programs in every school: those classes are called History,
Social Studies, etc.!
The purpose of ethnic studies classes (and clubs such as MEChA,
Black Student Unions, etc.) is to provide access to that which a
racist curriculum (and often racist or naive faculty members) deny
them: their history and past (and current) collective and individual
accomplishments -- as well as encouragement to continue as students
despite racist "tracking" which "guides" "minority" students into
pursuits other than higher education -- especially into the military.
"Ethnic pride" by those from "Third World" countries and their
descendants is an assertion of self-worth, pride, and dignity in the
face of a racist world; the "patriotism" of Euro-Americans and their
descendants is waving the banner of privilege and centuries of
domination and mistreatment of others. Moreover, not all those whose
ancestry is of European origin are the "privileged" groups; some are
oppressed, including Quebecois (i.e., the so-called
"French-Canadians), Kosovars (i.e., Albanians in what was Yugoslavia),
Irish Republicans, and others.
-- Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003
OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move toward
diversity, not bigotry.
She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.
McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic, Dutch,
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.
McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.
One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice president
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by wgodfrey
You can't really be faulted on what you say Barry, but what is to be done
about the attempt to form a Caucasian Club open to all Caucasians

Are you really NOT uncomfortable with the idea? It conjures up all
kinds of nightmarish events in my head..... While you have a point in
the abstract, the history of the USA just does NOT allow her -certain
prerogatives. This country needs healing, why add fuel to the fire?

Kafou

[wgodfrey]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey
You can't really be faulted on what you say Barry, but what is to be done
about the attempt to form a Caucasian Club open to all Caucasians

Are you really NOT uncomfortable with the idea? It conjures up all
kinds of nightmarish events in my head..... While you have a point in
the abstract, the history of the USA just does NOT allow her -certain
prerogatives. This country needs healing, why add fuel to the fire?

The club is open to ALL. Black Muslims (Nation of Islam) go around talking
crap about Whites being Devils and not allowing them in mosques and
amazingly they are a LEGAL organization. A high-school club can hardly be a
major source of consternation.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Kafou Lobo
Are you really NOT uncomfortable with the idea? It conjures up all
kinds of nightmarish events in my head..... While you have a point in
the abstract, the history of the USA just does NOT allow her -certain
prerogatives. This country needs healing, why add fuel to the fire?

The club is open to ALL.

I then don't understand the dichotomy.... why call it
"something" for white folks?

Kafou

[wgodfrey]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Kafou Lobo
Are you really NOT uncomfortable with the idea? It conjures up all
kinds of nightmarish events in my head..... While you have a point in
the abstract, the history of the USA just does NOT allow her -certain
prerogatives. This country needs healing, why add fuel to the fire?

The club is open to ALL.

I then don't understand the dichotomy.... why call it
"something" for white folks?

Even if tit DOES end up as "something for white folks (as opposed to the
other Caucasians)" what's the big problem?

This reminds me of an Eddie Murphy comedy routine on SNL where he imagines
how much Whites live it up when Blacks are not around. If they all pull out
the champagne, LET THEM HAVE THEIR FUN.

[William J. Wolfe]

Post by Kafou Lobo
I then don't understand the dichotomy....

You don't understand because you are a stupid gutter monkey.

why call it

Post by Kafou Lobo
"something" for white folks?

Why do niggers add blacKKK and/or afriKKKoon-American to nigger groups?

Post by Kafou Lobo
Kaffir

[torresD]

"I have a lot of black and Latino friends," she added.

"All my life I have been fighting for
racial equality, for these people.

What about that? Isn't that something?"

"You're still white!" the man shot back.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9943/noel.php

Inside the Black and Jewish Fight Clubs at the Anti-KKK Rally
The Hate That Hate Produced
by Peter Noel
October 27 - November 2, 1999

Determined protesters send a strong message to the Klan.
(photo: Meg Handler)

jittery police captain checked his watch
and straightened his sagging gun belt.

It was 4:20 p.m. last Saturday and the
commander's repeated radio calls for
cops in riot gear had been muffled by
the uproar of a surging crowd.

Although 16 unmasked members of the
American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan had
been hounded from Foley Square,
thousands of angry protesters-
feeling cheated out of a showdown
with the white supremacists-
lingered to agitate in the streets.

Some turned on grouchy, steely-eyed officers
-taunting the "Blu Klux Klan" who, they contended,
were all that stood between a multi cultural posse
and "death" to "the lynch-mob murderers."

But in an uncanny twist of events, others, blacks and Jews-
who hours earlier had locked arms in outrage at the
Klan's presence-

suddenly broke into separate fight clubs,
op posing pockets of anti-Klan resistance
that began to menace each other with racist
and anti-Semitic chantdowns,
which almost escalated into fisticuffs.

Tension between the groups erupted after
Jewish protesters tried to confront black
participants about placards they were carrying,
blaming Jews for "the black holocaust"
and decrying "revolutionary alliances" with whites.

These blacks said they felt that Jewish
civil rights activists especially were trying
to co-opt "a black-led struggle" against
the KKK.

"Tell me the last time a bed-sheet cracker
hung a muthafuckin' Jew from a tree?"

asked a black protester who held up a sign proclaiming:

"Niggers, beware of white interlopers.

Fight your own battles."

At the intersection of Chambers and Centre streets,
where a crowd gathered shouting anti-Klan insults,
Maya Paz, an 18-year-old Israeli conscript,
broke through police lines and stormed
after a tall black man in a gray gabardine suit.

Hoisted above the man's head was a
huge placard with a picture of a white
Jesus, asserting:

"The White Man Is The Devil."

(Paz would tell the Voice later she heard
the man make an anti-Semitic remark and
felt compelled to challenge him about it.)

"Get outta my face!"

he sneered, turning his back on Paz as he walked away.

Paz dogged his every move.

"This is wrong!"

shouted the teenager with Chelsea Clinton hair,
who was wearing a trendy Southpark fall coat,
green cargo pants, and dusty army boots.

"I have a lot of black and Latino friends," she added.

"All my life I have been fighting for
racial equality, for these people.

What about that? Isn't that something?"

"You're still white!" the man shot back.

"You don't know me,"

declared the tempestuous idealist,
who must report to the Israeli army by January.

"I don't even consider myself Jewish."

The man turned his back again.

"I had so much to say to him," Paz told a reporter as she propped herself
against a lamp post and began to cry. She felt humiliated by a man she
thought was united with her in the fight against bigotry, intolerance, and
outright hatred in New York City. Now all of her volunteer work surrounding
the interracial mobilization against the Klan seemed to be for nought. "I
came out at 11 a.m.," Paz recalled. "I had been on my feet all day yesterday
trying to bring people here." Maya Paz's appalling en counter with the
African American protester typified the white response to raw black rage.
Some astonished Jews and whites who helped to organize the largely
successful anti-Klan rally walked away teary-eyed and confused. What had
they done to African Americans to deserve this? Will blacks ever stop
blaming them-the other victims?


SHORTLY AFTER THE KKK departed,
Yigal Yavin, a 31-year-old Israeli citizen,
surveyed the volatile scene and picked his battles.

Yavin wandered into a session of the
Hebrew Israelites, a black religious
group known for its often profane
anti-white and anti-Jewish tirades.

The Israelites have preached in the
tourist-packed Times Square area
for much of the last two decades,
and are regularly seen on public-access TV.

But in the last year the group has been
denied sound permits and police have
harassed its members,

forcing them to proselytize elsewhere in the city.

In June, the Giuliani administration agreed
to pay the Israelites $59,000 to settle a lawsuit,
charging that police had infringed on their
First Amendment rights.

On Saturday, with bullhorns blaring,
the Hebrew Israelites rallied in front
of the Court Square Building at 2 Lafayette Street.

n defiance of the KKK,
they hung a stuffed, hooded,
and masked white-clothed doll
from one of the points of the
Star of David.

Yavin approached one of the Black Israelites,
as they are also known, and raised questions
about the group's anti-Semitic sermons.

The Israelite argued that the group teaches
what's in the Bible and speaks out against
white people only because the Bible identifies
them as wicked.

"Forget about your teachings; it's what the Bible teaches.

You're a hoax!" the Israelite told Yavin.

"The same God that took Moses
outta Egypt, he said that you're not a Jew."

"What in your mind is a Jew?" Yavin asked.

"You're all white people," the Israelite re plied.

"You use God's word outta your mouth, okay?

[Jews] don't know anything about God."

"Keep your eyes on God!"

shouted a young white woman who
had been listening to the Israelites
consign whitey to an everlasting hell.

Yavin gave up and left.

But another anti-Klan protester,
who described himself as a Moroccan-born Jew,
picked up the challenge and waded into the group.

His debate with one of the leaders about the
Nazi Holocaust wound up in a shouting match.

The fiercely proud Jew almost had his yarmulke handed to him.

The Hebrew Israelite denied there was a Holocaust.

"My granddaddy died....

He was killed in the Holocaust," the man said.

"Fuck that!" the Israelite responded.

"I'm honest. I don't give a damn if
he was killed in the Holocaust."

Blacks, he added,
suffered worse atrocities than
"the so-called Jews"

but Jews never talk about that.

"Y'all didn't go through no Holocaust!" the Israelite snapped.

"And 6 million Jews didn't even get kilt in that Holocaust!"

"There was a holocaust before that," the man retorted.

"Name 'em!"

"Pogroms?"

"What about them? Pilgrims?"

The Israelite seemed lost.

How much of the Jew's tragic history had he nullified?

When the Jewish pro tester disclosed that one of
his parents is Puerto Rican, the Israelite lectured him
on the Spanish conquest of the island and the evils of
race mixing.

"That's why we got a lot of
Puerto Ricans [who] look like you,"

the Israelite said,

adding, with the same blasphemous tongue,
that the late reggae king, Bob Marley,
was not a pure black man.

"If you look at Bob Marley,
he's the so-called white man," the Israelite said.

"His grandmother was white.

His father [was] a white man."

"There are no winners here," a Jewish protester conceded.

Farther down the street, six young Jewish women
were surrounded by a group of blacks and Latinos,
who included Harlem activist Delois Blakey,
a black former Catholic nun and assistant
to the late Garveyite Queen Mother Moore.

"There has been a lotta dialogue going on,"

said Blakey,

alluding to a heated quarrel that had
broken out among black militants and
white members of the "October 23
labor/black mobilization to stop the KKK."

Of course, the beef was about race.

"Now," said Blakey, updating a reporter,

"they're talking about the differences
between the Jews and the blacks-
the white skin privilege."

Blakey recalled that a black spokeswoman
for her group had lambasted one of the
Jewish women who tried to argue that
the black struggle for racial justice is
similar to some Jewish causes.

"So the question was raised, is she
[the Jewish woman] willing to go back
and bring others that think like her be
cause she

[the disbelieving black spokeswoman]
is not gonna accept her as one," Blakey explained.

Blakey said the entire group also had
de bated the contentious issue of reparations,
"payback [for blacks],

since the Jews [Holocaust victims who
are getting back millions in deposits stolen
by the Nazis] get paid every year."

The argument reached its most volatile pitch
when the Jewish activist said she was only
trying to help blacks overcome white racism.

"We got one Jewish girl over here...."

announced the spokeswoman for the blacks.

"Okay? Let's get it going.

We got five nice Jewish people over here
and a nigger lover that saying they wanna help us.

So let's see if we can git this party started.

We got a Jewish girl over here claiming to help...."

"You know what," the Jewish activist interrupted,

"the second I talk, you shut me down!...

I'm simply saying all white people are
racist and I'm here to show you I'm me."

"Because you're the white nigga?"
her opponent scoffed.

"Fine! So we are," the Jewish activist said.

"But you know what I'm telling you, that I'm here. I'm here!"

One of the Jewish women intervened:

"We really need to scrutinize ourselves
and maybe we'd work a little harder."

"See you at the club tonight,"
a black man heckled.

"See you at the dancehall...."

But the woman ignored him,
pointing out that she understood how
blacks react when they are stereotyped
because she's sometimes tailed in
department stores by people who think
she looks Jewish and is there to steal.

"I'm sitting here saying, I have white privilege,
and because I have white privilege that would
make me white, right?"

She said she has been reaching out to other
"people who are white," telling them it is time
that they admit that "all white people are racists....

The KKK are not the only racists.

There's racists everywhere!"

Nothing the woman said convinced her
black accusers that she felt their pain,
that she knew what it is like to be black in America.

"You have to cleanse yourself, become natural," a black man suggested.

"The white man made you," another protester declared.

"Why do you want me to become natural?" the woman asked.

"What should I do to become natural?"

When the reference to ethnic cleansing
seemed too painfully obvious to ignore,
the woman, tired and sobbing, blurted out,

"Six million people got fucking killed...."

This fight club broke up as police moved in,
ordering protesters to clear the streets.

Back at Foley Square,
three black men tried to remind a phalanx
of battle-ready cops why protesters were
reluctant to disperse.

A black officer said he was only doing his job
and would arrest anti-Klan demonstrators
who behaved violently.

"We're here fighting for you, too, brother,"

one of the black men said.

"We're fighting for all of y'all....

Y'all should never have them [the Klan]
standing on that ground.

We shoulda never let them off the bus....

We're all together now: blacks and whites,
Chinese, Jewish.

We're all together now."


INDEED, ORGANIZERS of the anti-Klan
rally had hoped that New Yorkers would
be united against race hate.

That was the objective.

But when frustrated black protesters began
to vent their rage against Jews and whites,
veteran conciliators began to wonder who
African Americans believe their real enemies are.

Just when bewildered observers were
concluding that the skirmishes signaled
a setback for the fragile black-Jewish
political alliance, a daring Klan sympathizer
yelled "Fire!" in the crowded street theater.

A multiracial mob-
some of whom had been arguing bitterly-
jumped on the woman and began to kick
and punch her.

Some spat on her.

"She said she was the KKK.

She hated Puerto Ricans and the 'black animals,"'

recalled Yigal Yavin,
the Israeli who'd squared off with the Hebrew Israelites.

Another witness said he heard the woman shout,

"Heil Hitler!" and curse at Jews.

For a moment, people noticed,
blacks and Jews were allies again,
countering the KKK hate rhetoric with
a righteous beatdown.

Who said blacks and Jews can't work together?

[wgodfrey]

Doris, I asked you to reply to me about CUBA but this is interesting
nevertheless.

The first thing I'm interested in finding out is what were the affiliations
of the black civil rights group mentioned. In situations like these any
group of Blacks appear to speak for all black people.

Post by torresD
Some astonished Jews and whites who helped to organize the largely
successful anti-Klan rally walked away teary-eyed and confused. What had
they done to African Americans to deserve this? Will blacks ever stop
blaming them-the other victims?

Surprise! Surprise! There are Blacks who are racist and ignorant. No need
for "confusion" on that score. And my guess is that the group mentioned here
is some sort of NOI group or a close affiliate. As I've said frequently not
many people know much about the history of slavery worldwide. But because in
the West the documentation dealing with it is more readily available
everyone talks about that. The degree of slavery organised by Muslims/Arabs
is generally only known to specialists.

Post by torresD
"Niggers, beware of white interlopers.
Fight your own battles."

Again, there are some who are very suspicious of leftists and liberal
getting involved in social or civil rights issues involving Blacks. I was
once at a gathering of Trots and Black students as a "getting to know you
exercise" and the people who were most infuriated by it all were the NOI.
They are really the soul partners of all the white racist groups. The fact
that the NAACP is heavily funded by various "white" groups (which of course,
many are unaware of) is also a bone of contention.

The fact that "black Israelites" are mentioned later doesn't surprise me.
People are known to get crazy over religion and ideology. Nothing new. And
crazies of the left and right are to be avoided like the plague.

When they mention about Marley not being a "pure" black man that was another
laugh. I wonder which "pure black man" in the Americas can really get up and
cast the first stone. Farrakhan?

Idiots are idiots in all different cultures.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by wgodfrey
Doris, I asked you to reply to me about CUBA but this is interesting
nevertheless.

LOL.... why do you call him "Doris"? By the way, TorresD is NOT Cuban,
he is either PRcan or Dominican. He used to be a professional troll,
he may have changed over the years.... I have flamed his pretentious
ass on many occasions in the past.

Kafou

[unknown]

Too many blacks, including "leaders", have foolishly allowed others to
divide blacks and Jews; the latter helped blacks get civil rights
laws passed 40 years ago. Thus it's not surprising that few blacks
have endorsed Joe Lieberman, even though he marched with blacks over
40 years ago in the south.

Post by torresD
"I have a lot of black and Latino friends," she added.
"All my life I have been fighting for
racial equality, for these people.
What about that? Isn't that something?"
"You're still white!" the man shot back.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9943/noel.php
Inside the Black and Jewish Fight Clubs at the Anti-KKK Rally
The Hate That Hate Produced
by Peter Noel
October 27 - November 2, 1999
Determined protesters send a strong message to the Klan.
(photo: Meg Handler)
jittery police captain checked his watch
and straightened his sagging gun belt.
It was 4:20 p.m. last Saturday and the
commander's repeated radio calls for
cops in riot gear had been muffled by
the uproar of a surging crowd.
Although 16 unmasked members of the
American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan had
been hounded from Foley Square,
thousands of angry protesters-
feeling cheated out of a showdown
with the white supremacists-
lingered to agitate in the streets.
Some turned on grouchy, steely-eyed officers
-taunting the "Blu Klux Klan" who, they contended,
were all that stood between a multi cultural posse
and "death" to "the lynch-mob murderers."
But in an uncanny twist of events, others, blacks and Jews-
who hours earlier had locked arms in outrage at the
Klan's presence-
suddenly broke into separate fight clubs,
op posing pockets of anti-Klan resistance
that began to menace each other with racist
and anti-Semitic chantdowns,
which almost escalated into fisticuffs.
Tension between the groups erupted after
Jewish protesters tried to confront black
participants about placards they were carrying,
blaming Jews for "the black holocaust"
and decrying "revolutionary alliances" with whites.
These blacks said they felt that Jewish
civil rights activists especially were trying
to co-opt "a black-led struggle" against
the KKK.
"Tell me the last time a bed-sheet cracker
hung a muthafuckin' Jew from a tree?"
"Niggers, beware of white interlopers.
Fight your own battles."
At the intersection of Chambers and Centre streets,
where a crowd gathered shouting anti-Klan insults,
Maya Paz, an 18-year-old Israeli conscript,
broke through police lines and stormed
after a tall black man in a gray gabardine suit.
Hoisted above the man's head was a
huge placard with a picture of a white
"The White Man Is The Devil."
(Paz would tell the Voice later she heard
the man make an anti-Semitic remark and
felt compelled to challenge him about it.)
"Get outta my face!"
he sneered, turning his back on Paz as he walked away.
Paz dogged his every move.
"This is wrong!"
shouted the teenager with Chelsea Clinton hair,
who was wearing a trendy Southpark fall coat,
green cargo pants, and dusty army boots.
"I have a lot of black and Latino friends," she added.
"All my life I have been fighting for
racial equality, for these people.
What about that? Isn't that something?"
"You're still white!" the man shot back.
"You don't know me,"
declared the tempestuous idealist,
who must report to the Israeli army by January.
"I don't even consider myself Jewish."
The man turned his back again.
"I had so much to say to him," Paz told a reporter as she propped herself
against a lamp post and began to cry. She felt humiliated by a man she
thought was united with her in the fight against bigotry, intolerance, and
outright hatred in New York City. Now all of her volunteer work surrounding
the interracial mobilization against the Klan seemed to be for nought. "I
came out at 11 a.m.," Paz recalled. "I had been on my feet all day yesterday
trying to bring people here." Maya Paz's appalling en counter with the
African American protester typified the white response to raw black rage.
Some astonished Jews and whites who helped to organize the largely
successful anti-Klan rally walked away teary-eyed and confused. What had
they done to African Americans to deserve this? Will blacks ever stop
blaming them-the other victims?
SHORTLY AFTER THE KKK departed,
Yigal Yavin, a 31-year-old Israeli citizen,
surveyed the volatile scene and picked his battles.
Yavin wandered into a session of the
Hebrew Israelites, a black religious
group known for its often profane
anti-white and anti-Jewish tirades.
The Israelites have preached in the
tourist-packed Times Square area
for much of the last two decades,
and are regularly seen on public-access TV.
But in the last year the group has been
denied sound permits and police have
harassed its members,
forcing them to proselytize elsewhere in the city.
In June, the Giuliani administration agreed
to pay the Israelites $59,000 to settle a lawsuit,
charging that police had infringed on their
First Amendment rights.
On Saturday, with bullhorns blaring,
the Hebrew Israelites rallied in front
of the Court Square Building at 2 Lafayette Street.
n defiance of the KKK,
they hung a stuffed, hooded,
and masked white-clothed doll
from one of the points of the
Star of David.
Yavin approached one of the Black Israelites,
as they are also known, and raised questions
about the group's anti-Semitic sermons.
The Israelite argued that the group teaches
what's in the Bible and speaks out against
white people only because the Bible identifies
them as wicked.
"Forget about your teachings; it's what the Bible teaches.
You're a hoax!" the Israelite told Yavin.
"The same God that took Moses
outta Egypt, he said that you're not a Jew."
"What in your mind is a Jew?" Yavin asked.
"You're all white people," the Israelite re plied.
"You use God's word outta your mouth, okay?
[Jews] don't know anything about God."
"Keep your eyes on God!"
shouted a young white woman who
had been listening to the Israelites
consign whitey to an everlasting hell.
Yavin gave up and left.
But another anti-Klan protester,
who described himself as a Moroccan-born Jew,
picked up the challenge and waded into the group.
His debate with one of the leaders about the
Nazi Holocaust wound up in a shouting match.
The fiercely proud Jew almost had his yarmulke handed to him.
The Hebrew Israelite denied there was a Holocaust.
"My granddaddy died....
He was killed in the Holocaust," the man said.
"Fuck that!" the Israelite responded.
"I'm honest. I don't give a damn if
he was killed in the Holocaust."
Blacks, he added,
suffered worse atrocities than
"the so-called Jews"
but Jews never talk about that.
"Y'all didn't go through no Holocaust!" the Israelite snapped.
"And 6 million Jews didn't even get kilt in that Holocaust!"
"There was a holocaust before that," the man retorted.
"Name 'em!"
"Pogroms?"
"What about them? Pilgrims?"
The Israelite seemed lost.
How much of the Jew's tragic history had he nullified?
When the Jewish pro tester disclosed that one of
his parents is Puerto Rican, the Israelite lectured him
on the Spanish conquest of the island and the evils of
race mixing.
"That's why we got a lot of
Puerto Ricans [who] look like you,"
the Israelite said,
adding, with the same blasphemous tongue,
that the late reggae king, Bob Marley,
was not a pure black man.
"If you look at Bob Marley,
he's the so-called white man," the Israelite said.
"His grandmother was white.
His father [was] a white man."
"There are no winners here," a Jewish protester conceded.
Farther down the street, six young Jewish women
were surrounded by a group of blacks and Latinos,
who included Harlem activist Delois Blakey,
a black former Catholic nun and assistant
to the late Garveyite Queen Mother Moore.
"There has been a lotta dialogue going on,"
said Blakey,
alluding to a heated quarrel that had
broken out among black militants and
white members of the "October 23
labor/black mobilization to stop the KKK."
Of course, the beef was about race.
"Now," said Blakey, updating a reporter,
"they're talking about the differences
between the Jews and the blacks-
the white skin privilege."
Blakey recalled that a black spokeswoman
for her group had lambasted one of the
Jewish women who tried to argue that
the black struggle for racial justice is
similar to some Jewish causes.
"So the question was raised, is she
[the Jewish woman] willing to go back
and bring others that think like her be
cause she
[the disbelieving black spokeswoman]
is not gonna accept her as one," Blakey explained.
Blakey said the entire group also had
de bated the contentious issue of reparations,
"payback [for blacks],
since the Jews [Holocaust victims who
are getting back millions in deposits stolen
by the Nazis] get paid every year."
The argument reached its most volatile pitch
when the Jewish activist said she was only
trying to help blacks overcome white racism.
"We got one Jewish girl over here...."
announced the spokeswoman for the blacks.
"Okay? Let's get it going.
We got five nice Jewish people over here
and a nigger lover that saying they wanna help us.
So let's see if we can git this party started.
We got a Jewish girl over here claiming to help...."
"You know what," the Jewish activist interrupted,
"the second I talk, you shut me down!...
I'm simply saying all white people are
racist and I'm here to show you I'm me."
"Because you're the white nigga?"
her opponent scoffed.
"Fine! So we are," the Jewish activist said.
"But you know what I'm telling you, that I'm here. I'm here!"
"We really need to scrutinize ourselves
and maybe we'd work a little harder."
"See you at the club tonight,"
a black man heckled.
"See you at the dancehall...."
But the woman ignored him,
pointing out that she understood how
blacks react when they are stereotyped
because she's sometimes tailed in
department stores by people who think
she looks Jewish and is there to steal.
"I'm sitting here saying, I have white privilege,
and because I have white privilege that would
make me white, right?"
She said she has been reaching out to other
"people who are white," telling them it is time
that they admit that "all white people are racists....
The KKK are not the only racists.
There's racists everywhere!"
Nothing the woman said convinced her
black accusers that she felt their pain,
that she knew what it is like to be black in America.
"You have to cleanse yourself, become natural," a black man suggested.
"The white man made you," another protester declared.
"Why do you want me to become natural?" the woman asked.
"What should I do to become natural?"
When the reference to ethnic cleansing
seemed too painfully obvious to ignore,
the woman, tired and sobbing, blurted out,
"Six million people got fucking killed...."
This fight club broke up as police moved in,
ordering protesters to clear the streets.
Back at Foley Square,
three black men tried to remind a phalanx
of battle-ready cops why protesters were
reluctant to disperse.
A black officer said he was only doing his job
and would arrest anti-Klan demonstrators
who behaved violently.
"We're here fighting for you, too, brother,"
one of the black men said.
"We're fighting for all of y'all....
Y'all should never have them [the Klan]
standing on that ground.
We shoulda never let them off the bus....
We're all together now: blacks and whites,
Chinese, Jewish.
We're all together now."
INDEED, ORGANIZERS of the anti-Klan
rally had hoped that New Yorkers would
be united against race hate.
That was the objective.
But when frustrated black protesters began
to vent their rage against Jews and whites,
veteran conciliators began to wonder who
African Americans believe their real enemies are.
Just when bewildered observers were
concluding that the skirmishes signaled
a setback for the fragile black-Jewish
political alliance, a daring Klan sympathizer
yelled "Fire!" in the crowded street theater.
A multiracial mob-
some of whom had been arguing bitterly-
jumped on the woman and began to kick
and punch her.
Some spat on her.
"She said she was the KKK.
She hated Puerto Ricans and the 'black animals,"'
recalled Yigal Yavin,
the Israeli who'd squared off with the Hebrew Israelites.
Another witness said he heard the woman shout,
"Heil Hitler!" and curse at Jews.
For a moment, people noticed,
blacks and Jews were allies again,
countering the KKK hate rhetoric with
a righteous beatdown.
Who said blacks and Jews can't work together?

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by unknown
Too many blacks, including "leaders", have foolishly allowed others to
divide blacks and Jews;

......while white racists have always wanted them to consolidate their
efforts, right? I guess you have never heard of "Divide et impere".
Oh well....

Post by unknown
Thus it's not surprising that few blacks
have endorsed Joe Lieberman, even though he marched with blacks over
40 years ago in the south.

That is true. Black folks have very little sense of loyalty and
gratitude, because they are so stupid.

Kafou "Did you look up 'parody' and 'irony'?" Lobo

[unknown]

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by unknown
Too many blacks, including "leaders", have foolishly allowed others to
divide blacks and Jews;

......while white racists have always wanted them to consolidate their
efforts, right? I guess you have never heard of "Divide et impere".
Oh well....

Yep. But most black leaders evidently have not. Hmmm, maybe YOU
should be a black leader.

Post by Kafou Lobo

Post by unknown
Thus it's not surprising that few blacks
have endorsed Joe Lieberman, even though he marched with blacks over
40 years ago in the south.

That is true. Black folks have very little sense of loyalty and
gratitude, because they are so stupid.

If more blacks in primary states vote for Sharpton than for Lieberman,
then we'll know for sure.

Post by Kafou Lobo
Kafou "Did you look up 'parody' and 'irony'?" Lobo

No, was I supposed to?

[John DeLaGarza]

lol

John DeLaGarza

[x***@erols.com]

Post by torresD
"I have a lot of black and Latino friends," she added.
"All my life I have been fighting for
racial equality, for these people.
What about that? Isn't that something?"
"You're still white!" the man shot back.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9943/noel.php
Inside the Black and Jewish Fight Clubs at the Anti-KKK Rally
The Hate That Hate Produced
by Peter Noel
October 27 - November 2, 1999
Determined protesters send a strong message to the Klan.
(photo: Meg Handler)
jittery police captain checked his watch
and straightened his sagging gun belt.
It was 4:20 p.m. last Saturday and the
commander's repeated radio calls for
cops in riot gear had been muffled by
the uproar of a surging crowd.
Although 16 unmasked members of the
American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan had
been hounded from Foley Square,
thousands of angry protesters-
feeling cheated out of a showdown
with the white supremacists-
lingered to agitate in the streets.
Some turned on grouchy, steely-eyed officers
-taunting the "Blu Klux Klan" who, they contended,
were all that stood between a multi cultural posse
and "death" to "the lynch-mob murderers."
But in an uncanny twist of events, others, blacks and Jews-
who hours earlier had locked arms in outrage at the
Klan's presence-
suddenly broke into separate fight clubs,
op posing pockets of anti-Klan resistance
that began to menace each other with racist
and anti-Semitic chantdowns,
which almost escalated into fisticuffs.
Tension between the groups erupted after
Jewish protesters tried to confront black
participants about placards they were carrying,
blaming Jews for "the black holocaust"
and decrying "revolutionary alliances" with whites.
These blacks said they felt that Jewish
civil rights activists especially were trying
to co-opt "a black-led struggle" against
the KKK.
"Tell me the last time a bed-sheet cracker
hung a muthafuckin' Jew from a tree?"
"Niggers, beware of white interlopers.
Fight your own battles."
At the intersection of Chambers and Centre streets,
where a crowd gathered shouting anti-Klan insults,
Maya Paz, an 18-year-old Israeli conscript,
broke through police lines and stormed
after a tall black man in a gray gabardine suit.
Hoisted above the man's head was a
huge placard with a picture of a white
"The White Man Is The Devil."
(Paz would tell the Voice later she heard
the man make an anti-Semitic remark and
felt compelled to challenge him about it.)
"Get outta my face!"
he sneered, turning his back on Paz as he walked away.
Paz dogged his every move.
"This is wrong!"
shouted the teenager with Chelsea Clinton hair,
who was wearing a trendy Southpark fall coat,
green cargo pants, and dusty army boots.
"I have a lot of black and Latino friends," she added.
"All my life I have been fighting for
racial equality, for these people.
What about that? Isn't that something?"
"You're still white!" the man shot back.
"You don't know me,"
declared the tempestuous idealist,
who must report to the Israeli army by January.
"I don't even consider myself Jewish."
The man turned his back again.
"I had so much to say to him," Paz told a reporter as she propped herself
against a lamp post and began to cry. She felt humiliated by a man she
thought was united with her in the fight against bigotry, intolerance, and
outright hatred in New York City. Now all of her volunteer work surrounding
the interracial mobilization against the Klan seemed to be for nought. "I
came out at 11 a.m.," Paz recalled. "I had been on my feet all day yesterday
trying to bring people here." Maya Paz's appalling en counter with the
African American protester typified the white response to raw black rage.
Some astonished Jews and whites who helped to organize the largely
successful anti-Klan rally walked away teary-eyed and confused. What had
they done to African Americans to deserve this? Will blacks ever stop
blaming them-the other victims?
SHORTLY AFTER THE KKK departed,
Yigal Yavin, a 31-year-old Israeli citizen,
surveyed the volatile scene and picked his battles.
Yavin wandered into a session of the
Hebrew Israelites, a black religious
group known for its often profane
anti-white and anti-Jewish tirades.
The Israelites have preached in the
tourist-packed Times Square area
for much of the last two decades,
and are regularly seen on public-access TV.
But in the last year the group has been
denied sound permits and police have
harassed its members,
forcing them to proselytize elsewhere in the city.
In June, the Giuliani administration agreed
to pay the Israelites $59,000 to settle a lawsuit,
charging that police had infringed on their
First Amendment rights.
On Saturday, with bullhorns blaring,
the Hebrew Israelites rallied in front
of the Court Square Building at 2 Lafayette Street.
n defiance of the KKK,
they hung a stuffed, hooded,
and masked white-clothed doll
from one of the points of the
Star of David.
Yavin approached one of the Black Israelites,
as they are also known, and raised questions
about the group's anti-Semitic sermons.
The Israelite argued that the group teaches
what's in the Bible and speaks out against
white people only because the Bible identifies
them as wicked.
"Forget about your teachings; it's what the Bible teaches.
You're a hoax!" the Israelite told Yavin.
"The same God that took Moses
outta Egypt, he said that you're not a Jew."
"What in your mind is a Jew?" Yavin asked.
"You're all white people," the Israelite re plied.
"You use God's word outta your mouth, okay?
[Jews] don't know anything about God."
"Keep your eyes on God!"
shouted a young white woman who
had been listening to the Israelites
consign whitey to an everlasting hell.
Yavin gave up and left.
But another anti-Klan protester,
who described himself as a Moroccan-born Jew,
picked up the challenge and waded into the group.
His debate with one of the leaders about the
Nazi Holocaust wound up in a shouting match.
The fiercely proud Jew almost had his yarmulke handed to him.
The Hebrew Israelite denied there was a Holocaust.
"My granddaddy died....
He was killed in the Holocaust," the man said.
"Fuck that!" the Israelite responded.
"I'm honest. I don't give a damn if
he was killed in the Holocaust."
Blacks, he added,
suffered worse atrocities than
"the so-called Jews"
but Jews never talk about that.
"Y'all didn't go through no Holocaust!" the Israelite snapped.
"And 6 million Jews didn't even get kilt in that Holocaust!"
"There was a holocaust before that," the man retorted.
"Name 'em!"
"Pogroms?"
"What about them? Pilgrims?"
The Israelite seemed lost.
How much of the Jew's tragic history had he nullified?
When the Jewish pro tester disclosed that one of
his parents is Puerto Rican, the Israelite lectured him
on the Spanish conquest of the island and the evils of
race mixing.
"That's why we got a lot of
Puerto Ricans [who] look like you,"
the Israelite said,
adding, with the same blasphemous tongue,
that the late reggae king, Bob Marley,
was not a pure black man.
"If you look at Bob Marley,
he's the so-called white man," the Israelite said.
"His grandmother was white.
His father [was] a white man."
"There are no winners here," a Jewish protester conceded.
Farther down the street, six young Jewish women
were surrounded by a group of blacks and Latinos,
who included Harlem activist Delois Blakey,
a black former Catholic nun and assistant
to the late Garveyite Queen Mother Moore.
"There has been a lotta dialogue going on,"
said Blakey,
alluding to a heated quarrel that had
broken out among black militants and
white members of the "October 23
labor/black mobilization to stop the KKK."
Of course, the beef was about race.
"Now," said Blakey, updating a reporter,
"they're talking about the differences
between the Jews and the blacks-
the white skin privilege."
Blakey recalled that a black spokeswoman
for her group had lambasted one of the
Jewish women who tried to argue that
the black struggle for racial justice is
similar to some Jewish causes.
"So the question was raised, is she
[the Jewish woman] willing to go back
and bring others that think like her be
cause she
[the disbelieving black spokeswoman]
is not gonna accept her as one," Blakey explained.
Blakey said the entire group also had
de bated the contentious issue of reparations,
"payback [for blacks],
since the Jews [Holocaust victims who
are getting back millions in deposits stolen
by the Nazis] get paid every year."
The argument reached its most volatile pitch
when the Jewish activist said she was only
trying to help blacks overcome white racism.
"We got one Jewish girl over here...."
announced the spokeswoman for the blacks.
"Okay? Let's get it going.
We got five nice Jewish people over here
and a nigger lover that saying they wanna help us.
So let's see if we can git this party started.
We got a Jewish girl over here claiming to help...."
"You know what," the Jewish activist interrupted,
"the second I talk, you shut me down!...
I'm simply saying all white people are
racist and I'm here to show you I'm me."
"Because you're the white nigga?"
her opponent scoffed.
"Fine! So we are," the Jewish activist said.
"But you know what I'm telling you, that I'm here. I'm here!"
"We really need to scrutinize ourselves
and maybe we'd work a little harder."
"See you at the club tonight,"
a black man heckled.
"See you at the dancehall...."
But the woman ignored him,
pointing out that she understood how
blacks react when they are stereotyped
because she's sometimes tailed in
department stores by people who think
she looks Jewish and is there to steal.
"I'm sitting here saying, I have white privilege,
and because I have white privilege that would
make me white, right?"
She said she has been reaching out to other
"people who are white," telling them it is time
that they admit that "all white people are racists....
The KKK are not the only racists.
There's racists everywhere!"
Nothing the woman said convinced her
black accusers that she felt their pain,
that she knew what it is like to be black in America.
"You have to cleanse yourself, become natural," a black man suggested.
"The white man made you," another protester declared.
"Why do you want me to become natural?" the woman asked.
"What should I do to become natural?"
When the reference to ethnic cleansing
seemed too painfully obvious to ignore,
the woman, tired and sobbing, blurted out,
"Six million people got fucking killed...."
This fight club broke up as police moved in,
ordering protesters to clear the streets.
Back at Foley Square,
three black men tried to remind a phalanx
of battle-ready cops why protesters were
reluctant to disperse.
A black officer said he was only doing his job
and would arrest anti-Klan demonstrators
who behaved violently.
"We're here fighting for you, too, brother,"
one of the black men said.
"We're fighting for all of y'all....
Y'all should never have them [the Klan]
standing on that ground.
We shoulda never let them off the bus....
We're all together now: blacks and whites,
Chinese, Jewish.
We're all together now."
INDEED, ORGANIZERS of the anti-Klan
rally had hoped that New Yorkers would
be united against race hate.
That was the objective.
But when frustrated black protesters began
to vent their rage against Jews and whites,
veteran conciliators began to wonder who
African Americans believe their real enemies are.
Just when bewildered observers were
concluding that the skirmishes signaled
a setback for the fragile black-Jewish
political alliance, a daring Klan sympathizer
yelled "Fire!" in the crowded street theater.
A multiracial mob-
some of whom had been arguing bitterly-
jumped on the woman and began to kick
and punch her.
Some spat on her.
"She said she was the KKK.
She hated Puerto Ricans and the 'black animals,"'
recalled Yigal Yavin,
the Israeli who'd squared off with the Hebrew Israelites.
Another witness said he heard the woman shout,
"Heil Hitler!" and curse at Jews.
For a moment, people noticed,
blacks and Jews were allies again,
countering the KKK hate rhetoric with
a righteous beatdown.
Who said blacks and Jews can't work together?

It must have been a DENSA rally.

[Pedro Navaja]

No one today, accepts those folks as caucasians. Only anthropologists
came up with those groups. You should read Haney Lopez book "White By
Law" on the role of the federal and supreme court in determining who are
whites and who are not.

None of those groups were part of "whiteness" . . .

Post by wgodfrey
You can't really be faulted on what you say Barry, but what is to be done
about the attempt to form a Caucasian Club open to all Caucasians (Indians,
Arabs, the Ainu, Berbers, Turks, etc.) and all others who want the right to
meet and socialize in what might appear to be a somewhat threatening
environment (California)? Ban it? In other words, take a page out of your
favorite country, Cuba?

Post by Barry Schier
1. There already is a White Club in almost all schools and school
districts: It goes by the name of School Board, Board of Trustees,
etc.!
And for those who ask(ed) why there's demands for Black Studies,
Chicano Studies, American Indian Studies, Asian-Pacific Studies, etc.
programs but none for White Studies programs, there already are White
Studies programs in every school: those classes are called History,
Social Studies, etc.!
The purpose of ethnic studies classes (and clubs such as MEChA,
Black Student Unions, etc.) is to provide access to that which a
racist curriculum (and often racist or naive faculty members) deny
them: their history and past (and current) collective and individual
accomplishments -- as well as encouragement to continue as students
despite racist "tracking" which "guides" "minority" students into
pursuits other than higher education -- especially into the military.
"Ethnic pride" by those from "Third World" countries and their
descendants is an assertion of self-worth, pride, and dignity in the
face of a racist world; the "patriotism" of Euro-Americans and their
descendants is waving the banner of privilege and centuries of
domination and mistreatment of others. Moreover, not all those whose
ancestry is of European origin are the "privileged" groups; some are
oppressed, including Quebecois (i.e., the so-called
"French-Canadians), Kosovars (i.e., Albanians in what was Yugoslavia),
Irish Republicans, and others.
-- Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003
OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move

toward

Post by Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
diversity, not bigotry.
She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.
McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic,

Dutch,

Post by Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.
McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.
One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice

president

Post by Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[wgodfrey]

Post by Pedro Navaja
No one today, accepts those folks as caucasians. Only anthropologists
came up with those groups. You should read Haney Lopez book "White By
Law" on the role of the federal and supreme court in determining who are
whites and who are not.
None of those groups were part of "whiteness" . . .

Just my point. It is to be a "Caucasian" Club. Let it be. No one has a
monopoly on the word. Thanks for the book reference: I was trying to
remember it.

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by wgodfrey
You can't really be faulted on what you say Barry, but what is to be done
about the attempt to form a Caucasian Club open to all Caucasians (Indians,
Arabs, the Ainu, Berbers, Turks, etc.) and all others who want the right to
meet and socialize in what might appear to be a somewhat threatening
environment (California)? Ban it? In other words, take a page out of your
favorite country, Cuba?

Post by Barry Schier
1. There already is a White Club in almost all schools and school
districts: It goes by the name of School Board, Board of Trustees,
etc.!
And for those who ask(ed) why there's demands for Black Studies,
Chicano Studies, American Indian Studies, Asian-Pacific Studies, etc.
programs but none for White Studies programs, there already are White
Studies programs in every school: those classes are called History,
Social Studies, etc.!
The purpose of ethnic studies classes (and clubs such as MEChA,
Black Student Unions, etc.) is to provide access to that which a
racist curriculum (and often racist or naive faculty members) deny
them: their history and past (and current) collective and individual
accomplishments -- as well as encouragement to continue as students
despite racist "tracking" which "guides" "minority" students into
pursuits other than higher education -- especially into the military.
"Ethnic pride" by those from "Third World" countries and their
descendants is an assertion of self-worth, pride, and dignity in the
face of a racist world; the "patriotism" of Euro-Americans and their
descendants is waving the banner of privilege and centuries of
domination and mistreatment of others. Moreover, not all those whose
ancestry is of European origin are the "privileged" groups; some are
oppressed, including Quebecois (i.e., the so-called
"French-Canadians), Kosovars (i.e., Albanians in what was Yugoslavia),
Irish Republicans, and others.
-- Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003
OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move

toward

Post by Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
diversity, not bigotry.
She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.
McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic,

Dutch,

Post by Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.
McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.
One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice

president

Post by Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[Kafou Lobo]

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Pedro Navaja
No one today, accepts those folks as caucasians. Only anthropologists
came up with those groups. You should read Haney Lopez book "White By
Law" on the role of the federal and supreme court in determining who are
whites and who are not.
None of those groups were part of "whiteness" . . .

Just my point. It is to be a "Caucasian" Club. Let it be. No one has a
monopoly on the word.

I now see your point....(at least in the abstract).... The word
"caucasian" carries some other weight in my mind.

Kafou

[Pedro Navaja]

You are welcome!

Post by wgodfrey

Post by Pedro Navaja
No one today, accepts those folks as caucasians. Only anthropologists
came up with those groups. You should read Haney Lopez book "White By
Law" on the role of the federal and supreme court in determining who are
whites and who are not.
None of those groups were part of "whiteness" . . .

Just my point. It is to be a "Caucasian" Club. Let it be. No one has a
monopoly on the word. Thanks for the book reference: I was trying to
remember it.

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by wgodfrey
You can't really be faulted on what you say Barry, but what is to be

done

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by wgodfrey
about the attempt to form a Caucasian Club open to all Caucasians

[Pedro Navaja]

Finally, a smart person understands the issue!

History has become a self contratulatory narrative of the achievement of
white males.

Post by Barry Schier
1. There already is a White Club in almost all schools and school
districts: It goes by the name of School Board, Board of Trustees,
etc.!
And for those who ask(ed) why there's demands for Black Studies,
Chicano Studies, American Indian Studies, Asian-Pacific Studies, etc.
programs but none for White Studies programs, there already are White
Studies programs in every school: those classes are called History,
Social Studies, etc.!
The purpose of ethnic studies classes (and clubs such as MEChA,
Black Student Unions, etc.) is to provide access to that which a
racist curriculum (and often racist or naive faculty members) deny
them: their history and past (and current) collective and individual
accomplishments -- as well as encouragement to continue as students
despite racist "tracking" which "guides" "minority" students into
pursuits other than higher education -- especially into the military.
"Ethnic pride" by those from "Third World" countries and their
descendants is an assertion of self-worth, pride, and dignity in the
face of a racist world; the "patriotism" of Euro-Americans and their
descendants is waving the banner of privilege and centuries of
domination and mistreatment of others. Moreover, not all those whose
ancestry is of European origin are the "privileged" groups; some are
oppressed, including Quebecois (i.e., the so-called
"French-Canadians), Kosovars (i.e., Albanians in what was Yugoslavia),
Irish Republicans, and others.
-- Barry Schier

Post by Super Duty
Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT September 18, 2003
OAKLEY, Calif. -- Lisa McClelland says she isn't a racist. She says her
campaign for a Caucasian Club at her California high school is a move toward
diversity, not bigotry.
She says everyone is invited -- and nobody will be excluded.
McClelland's ethnic background includes American Indian, Hispanic, Dutch,
German, Italian and Irish. She says she and her friends feel slighted by
other clubs at Freedom High School in Oakley, such as the Black Student
Union and the Asian Club.
McClelland says she's collected 245 signatures of support from students,
adults and others since announcing her plans three weeks ago.
One person who won't be signing up is Darnell Turner, first vice president
of the local chapter of the NAACP. Turner says he thinks the club will
create racial tension.

[Mark K]

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

PS:
Self-conrgratulatory toward the group that gets to write it,
Derogatory toward enemies of the group,
And always explaining why the bad guys made them do it.

[Pedro Navaja]

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

Like my American Indian friends say, we had a bad immigration policy!

Post by Mark K
Self-conrgratulatory toward the group that gets to write it,
Derogatory toward enemies of the group,
And always explaining why the bad guys made them do it.

You are absolutely right!

[Mark K]

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

Like my American Indian friends say,
we had a bad immigration policy!

Yes - or just naively friendly.

But then how could the indigenous inhabitants of the
Americas have ever conceived of a people
(like the Christian and Jewish settlers)
whose normal human tribal instincts
had been ratified by extra-terrestrial and divine warrant -
so that they naturally manifested all the chutzpah and hubris
of a Master Race?

[Ken Berg]

True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel. They had many things, and
a good society, but they were not big on technology. Yes the Indians
were trusting - too trusting. Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word) but hey -
there was an entire continent to claim for king and country, money to
be made, and a new society to be built.

Given the differences between the groups, and given the fact that the
Europeans (Spanish, British, and French) were far more technologically
advanced, with well established notions of property ownership and how
to build & run cities, it is no wonder the Natives lost in this clash
of societies.

It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos. From what I
have read, the Conquistadores were especially rough on Mexican and
South American Natives. Today, North American Indians fare better
than their Mexican and/or South American cousins.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

Like my American Indian friends say,
we had a bad immigration policy!

Yes - or just naively friendly.
But then how could the indigenous inhabitants of the
Americas have ever conceived of a people
(like the Christian and Jewish settlers)
whose normal human tribal instincts
had been ratified by extra-terrestrial and divine warrant -
so that they naturally manifested all the chutzpah and hubris
of a Master Race?

[Mark K]

Post by Ken Berg
Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word)
It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos.

But the Anglos did a pretty thorough job of stripping
the indigenous peoples of all their land,
nearly destroying their culture and almost exterminating them.

What about the Jews?
Would the Jews have been better than the Anglos?
Were not the Jews big into the slave trade in Latin America?
And especially the White slave trade?
Or were they?

[x***@erols.com]

Post by Mark K

Post by Ken Berg
Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word)
It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos.

But the Anglos did a pretty thorough job of stripping
the indigenous peoples of all their land,
nearly destroying their culture and almost exterminating them.
What about the Jews?
Would the Jews have been better than the Anglos?
Were not the Jews big into the slave trade in Latin America?
And especially the White slave trade?
Or were they?

Sixteenth century jews were no better than sixteenth century christians.

[Von Bailey]

Post by Ken Berg
True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel. They had many things, and
a good society, but they were not big on technology. Yes the Indians
were trusting - too trusting. Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word) but hey -
there was an entire continent to claim for king and country, money to
be made, and a new society to be built.
Given the differences between the groups, and given the fact that the
Europeans (Spanish, British, and French) were far more technologically
advanced, with well established notions of property ownership and how
to build & run cities, it is no wonder the Natives lost in this clash
of societies.
It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos. From what I
have read, the Conquistadores were especially rough on Mexican and
South American Natives. Today, North American Indians fare better
than their Mexican and/or South American cousins.
-----------------------------------------------------------

What planet do you live on?

What benefit technology to the indians?

What benefit the 'new society' to the indians?

The loss to european societies had everything to do with weapons gap
and very little if anything to do with social dynamics.

What measure are you using to differentiate a standard between the
treatment of conquerors of the Americas?

von

[Mark K]

Post by Von Bailey
What planet do you live on?
What benefit technology to the indians?
What benefit the 'new society' to the indians?
The loss to european societies had everything to do with
weapons gap and very little if anything to do with social
dynamics.

The interactions between different races/culture tend
to be destructive and exploitive in almost every possible way
of the "weaker" of the two races/cultures involved.

This is the due to the inherent tribal nature of humans that has
developed through the evolutionary process.

Post by Von Bailey
What measure are you using to differentiate a standard
between the treatment of conquerors of the Americas?

Great question.

[torresD]

Post by Ken Berg
True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel.

And after the Europeans got through with the Indians,
they not only didn't have the wheel, they didn't have their lives.

[Mark K]

Post by torresD

Post by Ken Berg
True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel.

And after the Europeans got through with the Indians,
they not only didn't have the wheel, they didn't have their lives.

No land, no freedom, no life.

[Pedro Navaja]

Post by Ken Berg
True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel.

Your point is . . . ?


They had many things, and

Post by Ken Berg
a good society, but they were not big on technology.

I guess technology is always good?

Yes the Indians

Post by Ken Berg
were trusting - too trusting. Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word) but hey -
there was an entire continent to claim for king and country, money to
be made, and a new society to be built.

Spain became underdeveloped with America's gold! It is still reeling
from being an empire.

Post by Ken Berg
Given the differences between the groups, and given the fact that the
Europeans (Spanish, British, and French) were far more technologically
advanced, with well established notions of property ownership and how
to build & run cities, it is no wonder the Natives lost in this clash
of societies.

So you think that Tenochtitlan (the Aztec capital of Mexico, Mexico
City?) was less developed than London????? You must be kidding!

Post by Ken Berg
It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos. From what I
have read, the Conquistadores were especially rough on Mexican and
South American Natives. Today, North American Indians fare better
than their Mexican and/or South American cousins.

Your should go abck to school and read better sources, your post just
shows shour ignorance about these issues.

Post by Ken Berg
-----------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

Like my American Indian friends say,
we had a bad immigration policy!

Yes - or just naively friendly.
But then how could the indigenous inhabitants of the
Americas have ever conceived of a people
(like the Christian and Jewish settlers)
whose normal human tribal instincts
had been ratified by extra-terrestrial and divine warrant -
so that they naturally manifested all the chutzpah and hubris
of a Master Race?

[Anonymous]

In the way they dealt with the Americans, the best of all the European
Powers (or the least bad, depending on how you look at it) were the
Spanish, and second were the French.

English, Dutch and Germans conducted a campaign of systemical genocide
that left their sphere of influence in America virtually bereft of
natives. Even today, those few of the American Race which have survived
in the USA live within Reservations, and it was not until relatively
recently that they were granted US citizenship. The European's
Firewater, and lack of educational opportunities and incentives, still
limit their intellectual growth as well as their integration into
mainstream society. The present situation does not bode well for those
who are the truest Americans of all.

OTOH, in the former Spanish and French Colonies, there exist twenty
times the amount of Americans there were at the arrival of the Three
Caravels. In fact, the so-called Black Legend was mostly a smokescreen,
fabricated by the English, to drive the world's attention from the
massacres they were perpetrating in the New World, as well a a thinly
veiled excuse to justify their piratical depredations on Spanish and
French settlements in America.

Homo Lupus Hominii

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Ken Berg
True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel.

Your point is . . . ?
They had many things, and

Post by Ken Berg
a good society, but they were not big on technology.

I guess technology is always good?
Yes the Indians

Post by Ken Berg
were trusting - too trusting. Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word) but hey -
there was an entire continent to claim for king and country, money to
be made, and a new society to be built.

Spain became underdeveloped with America's gold! It is still reeling
from being an empire.

Post by Ken Berg
Given the differences between the groups, and given the fact that the
Europeans (Spanish, British, and French) were far more technologically
advanced, with well established notions of property ownership and how
to build & run cities, it is no wonder the Natives lost in this clash
of societies.

So you think that Tenochtitlan (the Aztec capital of Mexico, Mexico
City?) was less developed than London????? You must be kidding!

Post by Ken Berg
It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos. From what I
have read, the Conquistadores were especially rough on Mexican and
South American Natives. Today, North American Indians fare better
than their Mexican and/or South American cousins.

Your should go abck to school and read better sources, your post just
shows shour ignorance about these issues.

Post by Ken Berg
-----------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

Like my American Indian friends say,
we had a bad immigration policy!

Yes - or just naively friendly.
But then how could the indigenous inhabitants of the
Americas have ever conceived of a people
(like the Christian and Jewish settlers)
whose normal human tribal instincts
had been ratified by extra-terrestrial and divine warrant -
so that they naturally manifested all the chutzpah and hubris
of a Master Race?

[x***@erols.com]

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Ken Berg
True - White folks (both Anglo AND Latino), or Europeans, were tough
on Indians in those days (1700's and 1800's), but one should also
recall that when Europeans first arrived, the Indians (at least in
North America) did not even have the wheel.

Your point is . . . ?
They had many things, and

Post by Ken Berg
a good society, but they were not big on technology.

I guess technology is always good?
Yes the Indians

Post by Ken Berg
were trusting - too trusting. Yes the Europeans were too aggressive
(in the case of the Spanish, "ruthless" is a better word) but hey -
there was an entire continent to claim for king and country, money to
be made, and a new society to be built.

Spain became underdeveloped with America's gold! It is still reeling
from being an empire.

Post by Ken Berg
Given the differences between the groups, and given the fact that the
Europeans (Spanish, British, and French) were far more technologically
advanced, with well established notions of property ownership and how
to build & run cities, it is no wonder the Natives lost in this clash
of societies.

So you think that Tenochtitlan (the Aztec capital of Mexico, Mexico
City?) was less developed than London????? You must be kidding!

They didn't have the wheel, so they didn't have carts, carriages
wheelbarrows wagons handcarts and therefore none of the benefits these
things
provide. And they didn't have iron.
They didn't have anything like a printing press so the population was
99%+ illiterate.

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Ken Berg
It is probably small consolation, but North American Indians can be
glad they were conquered by Anglos instead of Latinos. From what I
have read, the Conquistadores were especially rough on Mexican and
South American Natives. Today, North American Indians fare better
than their Mexican and/or South American cousins.

Your should go abck to school and read better sources, your post just
shows shour ignorance about these issues.

Post by Ken Berg
-----------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja

Post by Mark K

Post by Pedro Navaja
History has become a self contratulatory
narrative of the achievement of white males.

Like Columbus's "discovery" of America? :-)

Like my American Indian friends say,
we had a bad immigration policy!

Yes - or just naively friendly.
But then how could the indigenous inhabitants of the
Americas have ever conceived of a people
(like the Christian and Jewish settlers)
whose normal human tribal instincts
had been ratified by extra-terrestrial and divine warrant -
so that they naturally manifested all the chutzpah and hubris
of a Master Race?

[T-Rex]

Post by Pedro Navaja
Like my American Indian friends say, we had a bad immigration policy!

Victurd, you don't have any friends, just people who have had the misfortune
of meeting you and have to put up with you in order to get what they want!
And the sad thing is that your parents had a bad abortion policy.